Russ: "I'm finding myself in some fresh territory in terms of ministry demands. And I want to ask y'all, what are the gaps between your theological, biblical, or ministry training? How did you discover those gaps in the process of ministry, and what have you done to kind of close the gap between your skill set and the demands of your ministry?"

Duke: "Well, how you find out that there's a gap is you get your butt kicked."

Lately, Russ has been feeling the disconnect between his ministry training and the real-life demands of ministry.

In this episode, Glenn, Duke, and Russ explore the inherent limitations of seminary and other ministry training, and the ways they can fill in the gaps.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"It's almost like when I was a young seminarian I had the view that Jesus was building his church through the apostolic age, a little bit through Augustine, and then he just kind of stopped for a thousand years and then he started during the Reformation.

I look at my bookshelf and I see a lot of one side of the church, and one cultural expression of that theology. I feel stuck stuck there."

This week, Glenn's thinking about the catholicity of the church, and in particular how he can break out of the box his own spiritual tradition has made him accustomed to.

So how can Glenn incorporate wisdom from across the diverse Church? He, Russ and Duke spend time wrestling with this question, exploring the values and limitations of different traditions, and where pastors can look beyond just books to find fresh perspectives.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"I've been thinking about, how do you know when you're just experiencing a seasonal kind of fatigue because of an intense ministry season versus the beginnings of burnout?

This is a busy season for us. It involves your regular ministry kickoffs, a new sermon series, new events that you're doing, but add into that our community is in the process of trying to purchase a building. That's like a whole other job. And then you figure home stuff, life stuff.

I don't know if I've ever experienced burnout. But I'm curious as to how you guys would differentiate between ordinary ministry fatigue and the beginnings of ministry burnout."

This week, Russ wonders if he's burning out or just sprinting hard, while Duke shares his own experience with ministry burnout, and the ways Glenn's proactive leadership helped him recover.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"I just came out of a vacation. I went up to Pennsylvania to visit my parents and was like, 'Oh yeah, I can breathe, I can find a parking spot, I don't have to worry about no one honking at me when I don't pull out at the very minute that the light changes,'

You know, city prices, city stresses, all of that stuff.

You can't help but have the whiplash when you come back into the city. It's like, all right, buckle up."

Ministry is exhausting enough. But what happens when the place you do ministry starts to wear you down too?

This week, Glenn, Russ, and Duke discuss the pros and cons of city minstry, the lessons the city has taught them, and the plight of being a pastor who hates politics in Washington D.C. of all places.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"So you all walked with me when my wife was pretty sick. And I have to confess that there are times when I'm enduring personal trials, stuff outside the ministry where it feels like a distraction. I'm like, why is this happening? It's taken me off mission.

I have a hard time integrating what's happened in my personal life and seeing it as relevant to the mission of God."

This week, Glenn admits that sometimes he's not so great at living out of weakness. In fact, sometimes it just feels like a giant waste of time and a distraction from his true purpose of carrying out ministry work.

Is there a way to think differently about seemingly pointless suffering and struggle? This week, Glenn, Russ, and Duke try to figure out the point of all this suffering, and ultimately discuss the genuine value of baring your weakness before others.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"We're committed to cross cultural community, and you almost want to believe that anything that's a good commitment or a truly biblical priority will actually spell numerical growth.

But sometimes, committing yourself to cross-cultural things can cause people to step away, can cause your congregation to not grow or even to shrink.

I don't know. Do you think that it's true?

Do you just think there's evidence that a cross-cultural commitment for a local church spells slower numerical growth?"

In this episode, Duke wonders what the payoff really is for his commitment to cross-cultural ministry. If it's not church growth, then what is it? And why is it so hard to grow diverse, inclusive churches anyway?

Glenn, Russ, and Duke share their own stories of stalled growth and setbacks before settling on the real reason for their cross-cultural commitments.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"I think there are times of discouragement for me, of just feeling unseen and completely off the radar.

It's like you're just doing the thing faithfully. And it's having a profoundly fruitful impact, right? The fruit is so obvious and tangible, and sometimes I'm feeling like no one sees it.

How do you process those discouragements? How do you keep going?"

Sometimes, ministry is a thankless calling. On this episode, Pastors Duke, Russ, and Glenn have an honest conversation about battling discouragement in ministry.

They discuss the loneliness of leadership, the importance of life balance, and strategies like cognitive behavioral therapy for combatting distorted thinking patterns that lead to discouragement. And then all of a sudden Glenn drops the mic with the phrase "liturgy of survival," and it's game over, he won the discussion.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.

"Earlier in my ministry, someone would come in and they need some help. And so, I stand up to the plate and they bring their problem and I swing. And then, whiff. You know?

And then I see it doesn't register. I see it didn't help. So whiff, I swing again. I swing again until their eyes are glazed over.

And at the end of it I'm like: Was that whole thing about me needing to impact you, or was it really about wanting to help you?"

As Fall Ministry Kick-Off looms, Glenn wants to know the difference between holy ambition and idolatry. Sometimes, he’s not sure if he wants to help people, or simply “make an impact.”

So, how he can recognize the difference in his own life? The Glenn, Russ, and Duke spend time trying to answer this question before wondering if maybe he’s being a little hard on himself.

Till We Feast is:

• Glenn Hoburg, Pastor of Grace DC Downtown
• Duke Kwon, Pastor of Grace DC Meridian Hill and author of Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance & Repair
• Russ Whitfield, Pastor of Grace Mosaic and the Director of Cross-Cultural Advancement for Reformed University Fellowship

Till We Feast is produced by Area Code Audio.