What if burnout wasn’t a personal failure, but a sign that something bigger at the system level needs to change? In this episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O’Sullivan sits down with Kelly Swingler, the renowned “burnoutologist” and founder of the Burnout Academy, to uncover the truth behind today’s burnout epidemic. With candour and compassion, Kelly challenges the norms that glorify stress and exhaustion, exploring why real burnout is so much more than long hours. It’s about broken systems, shame, and outdated definitions of success.

Together, Cathleen and Kelly dive into the emotional realities of burnout, breaking down stigma and sharing personal stories of their own experiences. You’ll discover why leaders are often the first to “burn the brightest and break first,” and how shifting our focus from individual fixes to systemic change is the real path to sustainable well-being at work. Filled with vulnerability, laughter, and bold truths, this episode offers both insight and a call-to-action: it’s time to stop treating burnout as a weakness and start building workplaces and lives where well-being isn’t just an afterthought.

Episode Timeline:

03:27 Introducing Kelly Swinger, the "burnoutologist".

07:29 Burnout is the debilitating result of chronic stress

14:10 Leaders often misinterpret feeling overwhelmed or struggling as incompetence

19:47 Burnout is a global issue often caused by toxic workplaces

25:48 Living an unhealthy lifestyle can't be offset by minimal healthy activities

32:48 Many avoid discussing mental health as workplace stress rises

33:45 Burnout is often masked by other conditions due to stigma

56:27 Workplace freedom and creativity could reduce toxicity

01:07:35 Stressed leaders repeat outdated patterns

01:13:08 Leaders should focus on self-awareness and personal values over profits

01:20:20 Self-care routines can't cure burnout without genuine presence

01:24:49 Self-awareness and inner work are ongoing, challenging but rewarding.

Key Takeaways:

• Burnout is not just chronic stress or exhaustion, it’s falling off the edge of your stress scale into a place that affects your whole life.

• Leaders and organisations must move beyond surface-level “well-being” fixes and tackle the root causes of systemic burnout.

• You can’t “self-care” your way out of burnout, lasting transformation requires stopping, reflecting, and doing the deep inner work.

ABOUT Kelly Swingler

Kelly is the Burnoutologist, empowering Leaders to Banish Burnout in the changing world of work for themselves and their people. She leads the world’s number one Burnout Academy, training in Burnout Awareness. Known for being a rebel and a rule-breaker, Kelly has been ripping up the rulebook since 2002 after realising

that the way we are working isn't working, and how we are taught to define success is outdated. Today, Kelly educates leaders, Coaches HR and managers from companies around the world on how to recognise, prevent and recover from Burnout.

Connect with Kelly:

The Burnout Academy: https://www.kellyswingler.com/burnoutacademy

Book: https://www.kellyswingler.com/fckburnout

Social Media Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyswingler/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamkellyswingler/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Z6iJPB4gYz1MZoUPOgdlQ

Connect: 


Find | Cathleen O’Sullivan

Business: cathleenmerkel.com

Email: cmc@cathleenmerkelcoaching.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-merkel/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/

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