
Fatal Discord
Erasmus, Luther, and the Fight for the Western Mind
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Narrated by:
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Tom Parks
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By:
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Michael Massing
About this listen
A deeply textured dual biography and fascinating intellectual history that examines two of the greatest minds of European history - Desiderius Erasmus and Martin Luther - whose heated rivalry gave rise to two enduring, fundamental, and often colliding traditions of philosophical and religious thought.
Erasmus of Rotterdam was the leading figure of the Northern Renaissance. At a time when Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Raphael were revolutionizing Western art and culture, Erasmus was helping to transform Europe's intellectual and religious life, developing a new design for living for a continent rebelling against the hierarchical constraints of the Roman Church. When in 1516 he came out with a revised edition of the New Testament based on the original Greek, he was hailed as the prophet of a new enlightened age. Today, however, Erasmus is largely forgotten, and the reason can be summed up in two words: Martin Luther. As a young friar in remote Wittenberg, Luther was initially a great admirer of Erasmus and his critique of the Catholic Church, but while Erasmus sought to reform that institution from within, Luther wanted a more radical transformation. Eventually, the differences between them flared into a bitter rivalry, with each trying to win over Europe to his vision.
In Fatal Discord, Michael Massing seeks to restore Erasmus to his proper place in the Western tradition. The conflict between him and Luther, he argues, forms a fault line in Western thinking - the moment when two enduring schools of thought, Christian humanism and evangelical Christianity, took shape. A seasoned journalist who has reported from many countries, Massing here travels back to the early 16th century to recover a long-neglected chapter of Western intellectual life, in which the introduction of new ways of reading the Bible set loose social and cultural forces that helped shatter the millennial unity of Christendom and whose echoes can still be heard today. Massing concludes that Europe has adopted a form of Erasmian humanism while America has been shaped by Luther-inspired individualism.
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In this dazzling global history that charts five centuries of innovation and change, Alec Ryrie makes the case that Protestants made the modern world. Protestants introduces us to the men and women who defined and redefined this quarrelsome faith. Some turned to their newly accessible bibles to justify bold acts of political opposition, others to support a new understanding of who they were and what they could and should do. Above all, they were willing to fight for their beliefs.
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A secular history protestantism.
- By SakuraHB on 07-19-17
By: Alec Ryrie
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Lenin's Tomb
- The Last Days of the Soviet Empire
- By: David Remnick
- Narrated by: Michael Prichard
- Length: 29 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
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In the tradition of John Reed's classic Ten Days That Shook the World, this best-selling account of the collapse of the Soviet Union combines the global vision of the best historical scholarship with the immediacy of eyewitness journalism.
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The moral complexity of a comic book
- By Tot on 02-22-19
By: David Remnick
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The Life of Thomas More
- By: Peter Ackroyd
- Narrated by: Frederick Davidson
- Length: 18 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
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The Life of Thomas More went straight to #1 on the London Times best seller list when published in the United Kingdom. It remained in that position for over a month, garnering the kind of praise that is rarely given. Thomas More was not only a great man of the church, he was also arguably the most brilliant lawyer the English-speaking world has ever known.
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One of the hardest audiobooks I've ever finished
- By S. Marshall Priddy on 05-21-18
By: Peter Ackroyd
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The Eternal City
- A History of Rome
- By: Ferdinand Addis
- Narrated by: Pete Cross
- Length: 22 hrs and 3 mins
- Unabridged
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Why does Rome continue to exert a hold on our imagination? City of the Seven Hills, spiritual home of Catholic Christianity, city of the artistic imagination, enduring symbol of our common European heritage - Rome has inspired, charmed, and tempted empire-builders, dreamers, writers, and travelers across the 27 centuries of its existence. Ferdinand Addis tells its rich story in a grand narrative style for a new generation of listeners.
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An excellent review of Rome the city.
- By Anthony on 10-03-20
By: Ferdinand Addis
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Humboldt's Gift
- By: Saul Bellow
- Narrated by: Christopher Hurt
- Length: 18 hrs and 5 mins
- Unabridged
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For years, they were the best of friends: the grand, erratic Humboldt and the ambitious young Charlie. But now Humboldt has died a failure, and Charlie's success-ridden life has taken various turns for the worse. Then Humboldt acts from the grave to change Charlie's life: he has left Charlie something in his will.
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Great Book, Great Reader
- By Scott on 05-10-08
By: Saul Bellow
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The First Thousand Years
- A Global History of Christianity
- By: Robert Louis Wilken
- Narrated by: Bob Souer
- Length: 17 hrs and 51 mins
- Unabridged
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Beginning with the life of Jesus, Robert Louis Wilken narrates the dramatic spread and development of Christianity over the first thousand years of its history. Moving through the formation of early institutions, practices, and beliefs to the transformations of the Roman world after the conversion of Constantine, he sheds new light on the subsequent stories of Christianity in the Latin West, the Byzantine and Slavic East, the Middle East, and Central Asia.
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Excellent: Best Early Church History book I’ve read
- By Amazon Customer on 02-09-23
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The Cave and the Light
- Plato Versus Aristotle, and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization
- By: Arthur Herman
- Narrated by: Paul Hecht
- Length: 25 hrs and 26 mins
- Unabridged
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The Cave and the Light reveals how two Greek philosophers became the twin fountainheads of Western culture, and how their rivalry gave Western civilization its unique dynamism down to the present.
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All of Western Philosphy Leads to Ayn Rand?!?
- By Leslie on 06-22-15
By: Arthur Herman
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Christendom
- The Triumph of a Religion, AD 300-1300
- By: Peter Heather
- Narrated by: Peter Heather
- Length: 23 hrs and 48 mins
- Unabridged
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In the fourth century AD, a new faith exploded out of Palestine. Overwhelming the paganism of Rome, and converting the Emperor Constantine in the process, it resoundingly defeated a host of other rivals. Almost a thousand years later, all of Europe was controlled by Christian rulers, and the religion, ingrained within culture and society, exercised a monolithic hold over its population. But, as Peter Heather shows in this compelling new history, there was nothing inevitable about Christendom's rise to Europe-wide dominance.
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Well organized and incredibly researched
- By Hank Williams on 04-01-25
By: Peter Heather
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The Birth of Classical Europe
- A History from Troy to Augustine
- By: Simon Price, Peter Thonemann
- Narrated by: Don Hagen
- Length: 14 hrs and 47 mins
- Unabridged
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To an extraordinary extent we continue to live in the shadow of the classical world. At every level, from languages to calendars to political systems, we are the descendants of a “classical Europe,” using frames of reference created by ancient Mediterranean cultures. As this consistently fresh and surprising new audio book makes clear, however, this was no less true for the inhabitants of those classical civilizations themselves, whose myths, history, and buildings were an elaborate engagement with an already old and revered past - one filled with great leaders and writers....
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Excellent overview of the Classical World
- By David I. Williams on 01-12-14
By: Simon Price, and others
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Martin Luther
- Renegade and Prophet
- By: Lyndal Roper
- Narrated by: Michael Page
- Length: 15 hrs and 40 mins
- Unabridged
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On October 31, 1517, an unknown monk nailed a theological pamphlet to a church door in a small university town and set in motion a process that helped usher in the modern world. Within a few years, Luther's ideas had spread like wildfire. His attempts to reform Christianity by returning it to its biblical roots split the Western Church, divided Europe, and polarized people's beliefs.
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The purpose of this book is not to be a biography
- By LionsCalling09 on 01-25-18
By: Lyndal Roper
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Beware of Pity
- By: Stefan Zweig
- Narrated by: Nicholas Boulton
- Length: 14 hrs and 43 mins
- Unabridged
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In the twilight of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, a young cavalry officer is invited to a dance at the home of a rich landowner. There - with a small act of attempted charity - he commits a simple faux pas. But from this seemingly insignificant blunder comes a tale of catastrophe arising from kindness and of honour poisoned by self-regard. Beware of Pity has all the intensity and the formidable sense of torment and of character of the very best of Zweig's work. Definitive translation by the award-winning Anthea Bell.
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One of my favorite authors
- By Adeliese Baumann on 03-21-18
By: Stefan Zweig
I would’ve preferred the Reader’s Digest version, but the last two chapters are worth their weight in gold!
The American Protestant divide
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Great!
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Fatal Discord takes one back to the origin of Christianity and the bible, and the schism that rent it in the 16th century.
Sadly, the narrator cannot properly pronounce the many European places and words, and when he refers to
'thesis' it sounds like feces.
Someone familiar with European languages and their pronunciations would have been a better choice than
Tom Parks who has a very American accent with no ability to navigate un English words
Utterly fascinating
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Printing and Printers: The Reformation Letters, Essays and Bibles
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sensative portrait of convictions and struggles of both.
 Accurate on their stories and impact on the modern
World. All book cheracters are sympathetically put into
Their historical context, This is a gteat blend of storytelling, Personalities and disputes that put
Them on history’s central stage. I thoight I knew
This story, but after this book my insights doubled.
best political & religious history of the west I’ve read
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Amazing!
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Eye opening
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Excellent treatment of the subject
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How could I read this and NOT see today reflected in the struggle. Too, how could I miss the recurring Platonic / Aristotelian dialectic clash? Thank you for resolving my cognitive dissonance on Luther’s character and intent. Thank you also for showing so clearly how consequences bear little resemblance to intentions of those most able to shake the foundations of established order. All new thoughts and ideas about the period for me. Thank you, gentle author, for the journey.
When ossified human institutions meet transformative information technology
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This book is technically a dual biography of Martin Luther and Erasmus. As a biography of Luther, it is far better than Eric Metaxas's bio (also on Audible). It gets more details correct, goes into greater detail (especially with respect to the later years of Luther's life), and is much less hagiographical. I don't know of any other biography of Erasmus on Audible, so this is probably the best one. It is fairly short on detail on both authors' early lives and focuses on their intellectual developments. While the author clearly favors Erasmus over Luther, he portrays both figures in a sympathetic light and is willing to criticize both.
Both Erasmus and Luther come across as flawed people. Erasmus is portrayed as a high minded genius, cynical towards anything supernatural. He is portrayed as effectively reducing religion to morality and to social progress (which the author seems to think is a good thing). On the other hand, he is also portrayed as hypocritical, self-serving, duplicitous, and comfort-loving. Luther is portrayed as having good intentions to begin with, but with being a mediocre and spontaneous scholar, who, driven by a mix of ego and self-loathing, made up his theology on the fly and became increasingly hateful as he aged.
The amount of territory covered by this book is enormous. Besides the obvious topics, it also covers: The letters of Paul, the debate between Augustine and Jerome, the Reuchlin affair, Luther's views of Islam, the sack of Rome by the Holy Roman Empire's army, the full history of protestantism in Germany and America, the beginnings of protestantism in Switzerland, France, and the low countries.
Epilogue / Thesis:
The book ends with a long, surprisingly detailed epilogue concerning the influence of Luther's thought and Erasmus's thought from their deaths to the election of Trump. This epilogue essentially constitutes the thesis of the book. Two aspects of this epilogue are praiseworthy: First, whereas many authors present the history of protestantism as a series of static nodes on a family tree, Massing presents the different denominations as dynamic realities, each shifting back and forth between the sway of the Lutheran emphasis on faith over works and the Erasmian tendency to reduce religion to morality and social progress. So, for instance, at the start Methodists may have been more influenced by Lutheran tendencies, but now they are more Erasmian. Second, although the author clearly sympathizes with Erasmus and the secular, liberal order more than Luther and the American evangelicals he sees as Luther's descendants, he does not come across as polemical or condescending when describing those, like Kim Davis, who a lesser author would have mocked.
Criticisms:
The author does not speak much about Catholic theology or the details of Catholic criticisms of Erasmus. Where he does, however, what he says is often wrong or superficial. For instance, he repeatedly says that Catholics "worship" Mary, and even that the Council of Trent approved "worshipping" Mary. In modern English, "worship" means "latria." The Council of Trent absolutely did not approve latria for Mary, and to think that it did is absurd. More substantively, the author only cites criticisms of Erasmus's New Testament to the effect that, if you say X, then Catholic belief Y will be undermined. He doesn't cite in any detail any criticisms in which the authors showed on historical-critical grounds that Erasmus's scholarship was flawed. The result is that the Catholic perspective is treated as a straw man. Similarly, Massing just takes for granted that Luther interprets Augustine correctly and doesn't acknowledge that his reconstruction of the life of St. Paul is a highly controversial guess, not a matter about which there is consensus. For instance, he claims that Paul broke with Peter and started his own Church, but doesn't draw attention to the fact that almost no scholars until very recently would have accepted that account of events.
The reader is clear and easy to listen to, but mispronounces a lot of words.
History of debate between Erasmus and Luther
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