In this episode of the "Assessment Matters" podcast, host William Jarvis sits down with Doug, a seasoned county appraiser with over 35 years of experience. Doug shares his insights on the evolution of the GAAO summer conference, the challenges and strategies of property valuation and appeals in a small county, the importance of empathy and customer service in the assessment profession, and the future trends in real estate and technology integration. The conversation provides valuable perspectives for both new and experienced professionals in the property assessment field. Notes:

• Covers Doug's extensive career journey, working in various counties and roles within the assessor's office

• Highlights Doug's approach to dealing with property owners during revaluations, emphasizing the importance of empathy and clear communication

• Discusses the potential issues with inflated tax estimate notices and the need to encourage reasonable appeals

• Explores the impact of remote work and technology on the real estate market and assessment practices

• Provides career advice for new office workers, encouraging dedication and a commitment to serving the community

• Touches on Doug's ideas for leveraging technology, such as integrating Google Street View and capturing realtor listing data, to improve assessment processes

In this episode, we're joined by Rebecca Malmquist, City Assessor at the City of Minneapolis and IAAO President for 2024. We talk about nurturing the next generation of assessors, the challenges faced by the assessment industry, as well as her vision for IAAO.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Rebecca’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Rebecca’s experience in construction, urban planning, and assessment/appraisal

  • Creating opportunities for growth and professional development

• Nurturing new blood in the assessment industry 4:01

• • The needs of both younger entrants and older people switching careers

  • The power of one-on-ones: understanding people on a more holistic level

  • Meeting people where they are at — being ready for people when they are ready

• Big ideas for IAAO strategic initiatives 6:55

• • Creating inclusive spaces for more talent

  • Nurturing a new generation of professionals and leaders from more diverse and outsider backgrounds

  • Matching people with the mentorship they need — LaunchPAD

• Challenges faced by the assessment industry 11:39

• • Recruitment and retention — retirement waves and generational needs

  • Resources — learning more from each other for more efficiency

  • Readiness — being prepared for ever-arising challenges

• More on recruitment and retention 14:18

• • Provide as much flexibility as possible

  • Remote/hybrid working models

  • Getting leaders and local communities to better understand the importance of the assessment industry

• Collaborations and partnerships with IAAO 19:48

• • Valuable academic and educational work

  • Building trust between associations, and public trust around the world

• What IAAO legacy does Rebecca want to leave behind? 20:57

• • A better and more open association

• Advice for newcomers 22:22

• • “Find the path of joy”

• How to contact Rebecca 23:28

• • Email: president@iaao.org

  • Phone: +1 (612) 701-8410

In this episode, we're joined by John Watling, Director at the International Property Tax Institute. We talk about the state of the office industry, related macroeconomic concerns, and relevant challenges for property assessors.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• John’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • John's experience in property valuation and property tax policy

  • The state of the office property sector and related challenges faced by assessment agencies

• The state of the office industry 4:57

• • The effect of the pandemic on offices as an asset class

  • WFH dynamics and high vacancy rates — supply outstripping demand

  • Bifurcation in the market depending on building quality

  • Occupancy levels within offices — only 40-50% even for in-office

  • Lagging factors: pre-leased offices in delayed construction finishes

• Short term macroeconomic concerns 16:32

• • Outstanding loans vs lowered valuations and higher cap rates

  • Increased hesitance in bank lending

• Challenges for assessors 19:36

• • Due diligence required for financial information and sales investigations

  • Importance of local knowledge: owners, tenants, brokers, third-party reports

  • Not being swayed by distressed and/or bankruptcy sales

  • Let the actual data—not speculation—drive results

  • Relevance of office portfolios to municipal tax revenues

• How to contact John 23:28

• • Email: jwatling@ipti.org

In this episode, we're joined by Alex Armlovich, Senior Housing Policy Analyst at the Niskanen Center. We talk about the housing shortage’s impact on affordability, the harms of growth controls, and the significance of property taxation in housing policy.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Alex’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Alex’s experience in housing policy at both the state and federal level

  • Unlocking supply barriers to grow the supply of housing

• What’s up with housing? 1:52

• • Growth controls in the 20th century

  • Collision of growth control with sprawl limits (both legal and physical)

  • COVID exploding housing markets in secondary cities

  • The bottlenecks of housing production

  • Competing interests and concerns in housing politics

• Why does property tax policy matter for housing? 6:40

• • Land Value Tax — taxing land vs improvements

  • Intersection of procedural costs, assessment regimes, and tax policy

• State of municipal property taxation in cities such as Philadelphia and New York 10:26

• • History of interest groups and power

  • Ongoing lawsuits regarding equity and constitutionality

• Timeline and optimism for fixing housing and property taxation 15:22

• • Policy changes vs material progress

  • Horizontal vs vertical equity in shifting taxation

• How to contact Alex 18:16

• • Twitter: @aarmlovi

In this episode, we're joined by Pat Alesandrini, Past-President of IAAO and Chief Deputy Property Appraiser in Hillsborough County, Florida. We talk about the growth and usage of artificial intelligence and machine learning, small jurisdictions and “dark store theory”, as well as other new trends in the assessment industry.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Pat’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Pat’s experience in the building and valuation, economics, and mass appraisal, and more

  • Combining Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Machine Learning (ML) with geospatial analytics, expansion of IAAO internationally, and difficulties of smaller assessment offices

• AI and ML, Chat GPT, LLM — what are the big opportunities, especially in assessment, in the next 5-10 years? 3:52

• • “The sky's the limit” — automating mundane and repetitive work

  • Being cognizant of data quality and effect on software

  • Important for people who don’t use it to see that it’s not magic, but rather a tool

  • Pushing IAAO to set up standards for AI usage

• Struggles of smaller jurisdictions 12:18

• • Tend to be understaffed and underpaid

  • Lack good training and good data

  • Low market activity and small catchment areas

• “Dark store” theory 18:53

• • How deed restrictions are used by commercial property owners to lower commercial property assessments across the board

  • Factors assessors must be cognizant of when determining market value

  • How it started, established legal precedent, and relevant legislation

• Advice for newcomers 25:18

• • Education — classes, training programs

  • Experience — learn on the job

  • Exposure — finding out more about various other different industries, property uses, etc.

• How to contact Pat 31:04

• • Phone: +1 (309) 453-6684

  • Email: drini57@outlook.com

In this episode, we're joined by Alex Alsup, Vice President of Research & Development at Regrid. We talk about the Detroit foreclosure crisis, Regrid’s work in collecting land parcel data, as well as transparency and accessibility in assessment.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Alex’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Alex’s experience in parcel mapping, data collection, and tackling the Detroit property tax foreclosure crisis

  • How does land use and land taxation make housing so unaffordable in the US?

• What caused the Detroit property tax foreclosure crisis? 5:13

• • Lack of consistent reassessment

  • Difficult to navigate bureaucratic poverty relief programs

  • Differences in homeowner vs renter experiences

  • Perverse incentives featuring speculative and delinquent landlords

• What does the process look like to collect parcel data? 8:44

• • Maximizing freshness, coverage, and depth of parcel data

  • Incremental progress over a decade with regular updates

  • Data sources

• What Regrid did differently from past parcel data collection 12:01

• • Specific focus on parcel boundaries and shapes

  • Broadening access to historically obscure and idiosyncratic knowledge

• Current R&D projects and interests: the Detroit Assessment Gauge 13:31

• • comparing assessed values to US Census tract

  • Helping improve transparency and public trust

  • Providing the public with the technical language for assessments

• How to see more of Regrid 17:42

• • Regrid's website

  • Promoting data access via Data With Purpose:

In this episode, we're joined by Daryl Fairweather, Chief Economist at Redfin. We talk about the importance of property/land taxation, the current state of the American housing market, as well as necessary reforms for housing abundance and affordability.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Daryl’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Daryl’s experience in behavioral and housing/land economics

  • How does land use and land taxation make housing so unaffordable in the US?

• How does property tax policy affect housing? 1:52

• • Taxes matter a lot, especially in states such as California

  • Restrictive zoning and Prop 13 (property tax caps) make housing less affordable

  • Development is penalized by property taxation that includes improvements

  • Same flaws with zoning and property tax regimes observed all over the US

• The state of the US housing market 5:24

• • Housing shortage and affordability crisis started well before the COVID-19 pandemic

  • Interest (and mortgage) rates plus pandemic migration patterns

  • Regional variations in the US

  • Is it a good time to buy a home?

• What are the changes needed to make housing more affordable? 10:36

• • Eliminate single-unit and other restrictive zoning

  • Land value tax policy

  • Get ahead of the issue in states that are not as far gone as places like California

• How to contact Daryl 12:12

• • Substack: https://hatethegame.substack.com/

  • Twitter: https://twitter.com/FairweatherPhD
    

In this episode, we're joined by Marco Kuijper, Strategy Developer at The Netherlands Council for Real Estate Assessment. We talk about the role of oversight agencies in Netherlands property taxation, the growth of AI, as well as new trends in the assessment field.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Marco’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• • Marco’s background in auditing and assessment oversight

  • What will AI do to the assessment industry?

  • Will taxpayers trust the results of AI valuation models?

• What effect will AI have on the industry in the short term? 3:00

• • The Dutch property tax, assessment, and appeals system

  • More AI model usage for evaluations

  • AI used both by taxpayers for appeals, as well as by municipalities in response

• Collecting geographic data with AI 4:39

• • Detecting houses and maintenance level from imagery

  • LLM: useful for back office tasks

• Modeling in the Netherlands 5:59

• • Some use AVM, others use clustering techniques (comparatively old-fashioned)

  • Gradual move towards machine models is expected — AI already exists in other parts of daily life

• Tolerance studies of the oversight agency 8:02

• • Same ranges used as the IAAO Standard on Ratio Studies (COD/PRD 10-15%)

  • Agency practice — not a part of legal standard

  • Comply/explain principle

  • Decentralized system — more education needed from the top

• Netherland property taxation in the next ten years 10:31

• • Shifting more towards municipal taxation

  • Land Value Tax proposed — good in theory, but must overcome various practical challenges and constraints

• Advice to newcomers 13:04

• • Be adaptable to change

  • Learn best practices from other countries and jurisdictions

• How to contact Marco 14:50

• • marco.kuijper@waarderingskamer.nl