Ten years ago, Suzy traveled to Seattle to film a Today Show segment about a young make-up entrepreneur who was doing business differently. For every pair of false eyelashes she sold, she gave away a set to a chemotherapy patient who was losing her hair. At the time, Thrive Causemetics was based in Karissa Bodnar’s kitchen. The company has been so successful Karissa gave away – HELLO, GAVE AWAY – $150 million dollars to cancer patients and causes. And yet, Karissa would tell you that she’s failed along the way so many times she even has a playlist of “failure songs.” We share some of those tunes, plus so much more, in this interview that happened when Karissa stopped by Suzy’s house to reminisce, compare notes, challenge each other, and, as usual, talk about the ageless question of how to know your values – and live by them. Also in the pod, we answer: Can your boss be your friend? And, importantly, can gray hair be cured?

Our topic this week is the value of fame – yes, fame is a value! – but why leave it there? In this episode, we also talk about how much we can lie to ourselves about this particular value, not to mention a few others we have hiding in our hearts. Why do we do this? Because we’re human. No getting around it. Also in this episode: Suzy’s profound take on the fluffy Netflix mini-series “The Perfect Couple,” and ruminations on the desire…never to work. Hit play!