“The loneliness of Australia is going to be one of many fairly dramatic changes”, says David Rennie towards the end of this utterly absorbing episode.

On Wednesday 12 February I interviewed David Rennie in DFAT’s studio in Canberra. David was visiting Australia for the week, hosted by Asia Society Australia and supported by the National Foundation for Australia-China Relations. David is geopolitics editor at The Economist having recently returned to London after six years living in China as Beijing bureau chief. He launched the Chaguan column on China in that role and last November launched a new column on geopolitics for the newspaper, The Telegram. David joined The Economist in 2007 and in addition to London and Beijing has been based in Brussels and Washington in that time. He is the co-host of the excellent Drum Tower podcast, launched in late 2022.

Our discussion is not about Australia at all, really, but about China and the US under Donald Trump. Rival great powers, but perhaps with an increasingly converging worldview which portends, according to David, loneliness for Australia. This is one of the podcast’s most important episodes of the past few years and I think worth the time for all those interested in international affairs.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

David Rennie (bio): https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/david-rennie/

The Economist, The Telegram (column): https://www.economist.com/topics/the-telegram

The Economist, Drum Tower (podcast): https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/drum-tower

Peter Varghese, “Trump’s Gaza grab shows America is no better than China”, Australian Financial Review, 6 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/trump-s-gaza-grab-shows-america-is-no-better-than-china-20250206-p5la0x

Chappell Roan (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/7GlBOeep6PqTfFi59PTUUN

Bobby Timmons Trio (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/47jpbb07933jSiHmir7yda