In this special episode recorded at SXSW in Austin, Texas, hosts Justin Forman and Richard Cunningham sit down with Brent Beshore, founder and CEO of Permanent Equity, to discuss what it means to take a long-term, cathedral-like perspective in business and investing.

Brent shares his transformation from an achievement-driven atheist to a faith-focused entrepreneur, highlighting how his approach to private equity challenges industry norms with long-term capital, zero debt, and transparent fee structures. Throughout the conversation, Brent reveals how vulnerability and authentic relationships have been crucial both in his personal faith journey and in building a successful investment firm.

• Brent's journey from atheism to faith and how it transformed his perspective on business, family, and achievement
• The dangers of "acceptable sin" that starts small but eventually leads to devastating consequences
• Why living in the light through authentic relationships is essential for both personal healing and business success
• How Permanent Equity's unique model of 30-year capital and no debt creates true alignment with business owners
• The concept of "cathedral thinking" - building something that may take generations to complete
• The importance of community and authentic relationships in combating isolation, especially for successful entrepreneurs
• Why achievement, control, and self-reliance can be more dangerous addictions than substances

In this May 2025 episode of Faith Driven Investor, hosts Richard Cunningham and John Coleman welcome Deirdre Gibson, ETF Specialist and National Sales Director at Praxis Investment Management, for a wide-ranging discussion on faith-driven investing and current market conditions.

Episode Highlights:

Understanding ETFs vs. Mutual Funds (2:31-4:42)

• Gibson explains the structural differences between ETFs and mutual funds
• Key advantages of ETFs: tax benefits, liquidity, transparency, and lower minimum investments
• How ETF structure makes diversified investing more accessible to everyday people

Jesus as a Model for Engagement (7:39-12:03)

• Gibson shares insights from her Kingdom Advisors conference presentation
• Examines how Jesus engaged with sinners rather than avoiding them
• Applies this model to faith-driven investing: avoid, seek, engage framework
• Makes the case for strategic engagement with companies rather than only screening them out

The "Sullivan Principles" and Christian Influence (12:03-15:19)

• Coleman discusses how the Episcopal Church's 1971 engagement with GM over apartheid led to industry-wide change
• How Christians can use capital ownership to influence corporate behavior
• The missed opportunity when Christians only avoid rather than engage

Research on Faith-Aligned Investing (20:50-24:24)

• Praxis research reveals significant gap between investor desires and advisor actions
• 70-85% of investors want values-aligned options while only 9% of advisors initiate these conversations
• Evidence that clients are making investments outside advisor relationships when values-alignment isn't offered

Tariffs and Market Analysis (29:01-41:42)

• Comprehensive breakdown of the Trump administration's tariff strategy and goals
• Analysis of four key administration objectives: reducing trade deficits, leveling playing fields, securing critical supply chains, and changing allies' position toward China
• Coleman's five-point framework for achieving a "soft landing" through modest and reciprocal tariffs

Market Outlook and Behavioral Finance (42:11-47:05)

• Disconnect between resilient economic data and fearful consumer/investor sentiment
• The phenomenon of "home bias" in investment portfolios
• The importance of maintaining business confidence to avoid recession despite uncertainty

Closing Thoughts on Human Dignity in Economics (48:33-53:19)

• Discussion of valuing human contributions beyond productive capacity
• Faith perspective on economic disruption from AI and technology advancement
• Biblical frameworks for approaching economic uncertainty with confidence

Can you build a thriving business while facing back-to-back life-threatening crises? Travis Penfield did exactly that, transforming his brush with death from a brain tumor and his wife's cancer battle into clarity for scaling 49 Financial to 200+ advisors. His blueprint for bridging the trillion-dollar advisor succession gap prioritizes mentorship over metrics, revealing how personal trials became his greatest business advantage.

Join us for this special joint episode of the Faith Driven Investor & Entrepreneur podcast.

• Travis shares his recent experience meeting Jack Nicklaus and John Maxwell, highlighting Nicklaus's emphasis on family over golf achievements
• The powerful story of Travis's brain tumor in 2016, requiring him to relearn basic functions
• His wife Jacqueline's cancer diagnosis and the emotional journey of shaving her head during chemotherapy
• The doctor telling Travis to "prepare as if she's gone" and taking his daughters to San Diego while contemplating single fatherhood
• How these health crises fundamentally changed his approach to business success and identity

• 49 Financial's three-pillar strategy: handling more complex issues, offering more services, and building more community
• The company's focus on young advisors (22-year-olds) in an industry where the average advisor is in their upper 50s
• How 49 Financial is addressing the industry-wide 9% retention rate for new advisors
• Travis's shift from "quantity over quality" to "quality over quantity" in building his business
• His vision for bridging the gap between aging advisors with trillions in assets and the next generation

• How facing mortality transformed Travis's relationship with God and clarity about priorities
• The role of childlike faith in entrepreneurship versus the challenges of maintaining bold faith as a business matures
• Using their platform to help clients turn "tax dollars into giving dollars" through strategic charitable planning
• The daily struggle of enjoying present moments while awaiting his wife's five-year cancer-free milestone

• "I think maybe a lot of entrepreneurs out there, it is so easy, even as believers, to make our business our identity. And it's such a sneak."
• "It puts you in a different place in your faith when each one of you experience the thought of losing the other one within a day."
• "If the business doesn't make it, it's okay. If the business does hit that growth goal, it's okay... I'm going home to my bride."
• "My heart and why 49, as long as I'm around, is going to be for the young person."
• "We're going to turn tax dollars into giving dollars."