Four Bars Podcast By Ken and Patti Leith cover art

Four Bars

Four Bars

By: Ken and Patti Leith
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Presented by EDGES, Inc., The Four Bars Podcast is about building stronger, more connected communities through meaningful conversations. Hosted by Ken and Patti Leith, we explore how to foster collaboration, embrace differences, and address challenges together.


We believe in creating "Four Bars" in our connections – deeper relationships that enhance personal lives, workplaces, and communities. Drawing on EDGES' innovative team collaboration tool, Inter Face Methods, and our nonprofit initiative, Unform Your Bias™, we share practical strategies to improve communication and reduce bias through storytelling.

© 2025 Four Bars
Relationships Social Sciences
Episodes
  • The Hidden Cost of Toxic Workplaces - Part 2
    Jul 24 2025

    What happens when the same behaviors that would prompt immediate police intervention on the street are normalized behind office doors? Dr. Jason Walker, a dual-doctorate psychologist and internationally recognized expert on workplace violence, bullying, and harassment, takes us on a compelling journey exploring this dangerous double standard.

    "Why is it if you are touched sexually in an unwanted way, if you were on the street, the cops would show up? But you're at work and you're like, well, you know, talk to your manager...we'll go to HR...we're going to have to document. Who are we protecting here?" This provocative question frames our deep dive into how workplace bullying, harassment, and sexual abuse continue to thrive in professional environments.

    Dr. Walker reveals how organizational blind spots and misplaced priorities create systems that protect perpetrators rather than victims. He explains why approximately 30% of American workers, a staggering 48.3 million people, experience workplace bullying within any six-month period, and why traditional responses fall devastatingly short. From the limitations of HR investigations to the dangerous practice of protecting high-performing "rainmakers" who bully, we explore the systemic failures that normalize workplace violence.

    Beyond identifying problems, Dr. Walker provides transformative solutions for creating psychologically safe workplaces. He outlines practical steps organizations can take: explicitly including psychological safety in mission statements, training leaders to intervene when witnessing harmful behaviors, revamping benefit structures to properly support employees, and implementing truly effective reporting systems. For individuals experiencing workplace bullying, he offers thoughtful guidance on documentation, self-protection, and knowing when to seek a healthier work environment.

    Join us for this essential conversation about workplace dignity and safety. Whether you're an organizational leader wanting to create a healthier culture or someone navigating a toxic work environment, this episode provides the clarity and tools needed to recognize, address, and prevent workplace bullying. Because as Dr. Walker emphasizes: "You have the right to go to work and be safe, and part of that is your psychological safety."

    Follow and stay connected:

    Website: fourbarspodcast.com
    YouTube: youtube.com/@FourBarsPodcast
    Instagram: @edges_Inc
    Facebook: EDGES Inc.
    LinkedIn: EDGES Inc.

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    32 mins
  • The Hidden Cost of Toxic Workplaces - Part 1
    Jul 10 2025

    Dr. Jason Walker, an internationally recognized expert with dual doctorates in psychology, pulls back the curtain on workplace bullying—a crisis affecting 75% of workers during their careers. Drawing from his own powerful personal experiences, Dr. Walker explains how workplace bullying isn't just "bad behavior" but a public health crisis costing our economy nearly a billion dollars annually.

    The conversation draws crucial distinctions between proper performance management and actual bullying. "Holding people accountable is not bullying," Dr. Walker emphasizes, before detailing the true hallmarks of workplace abuse: gossiping, undermining, yelling, and creating fear. He explains how bullies often exhibit the "dark triad" personality traits—narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy—and how they're attracted to hierarchical organizations where they can exercise power.

    Most disturbing is how organizations enable abusive behavior through ineffective policies. Dr. Walker reveals that when high performers or leaders are the perpetrators, "zero tolerance" policies are rarely enforced, sending a clear message: "This behavior is okay." The consequences are devastating—from cardiovascular disease and PTSD to suicide in extreme cases—with recovery taking years even after leaving the toxic environment.

    For listeners currently experiencing workplace bullying, Dr. Walker offers practical strategies: document everything, seek mental health support, and find allies within the organization. The solution begins with leadership that models respect and addresses inappropriate behavior in real-time, creating cultures where psychological safety thrives.

    Ready to create healthier workplace environments where everyone can thrive? Listen to our full discussion with Dr. Walker and discover how addressing workplace bullying can actually increase productivity and revenue by up to 30%.

    Follow and stay connected:

    Website: fourbarspodcast.com
    YouTube: youtube.com/@FourBarsPodcast
    Instagram: @edges_Inc
    Facebook: EDGES Inc.
    LinkedIn: EDGES Inc.

    Never miss an update—follow, subscribe, and join the conversation!

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    38 mins
  • The Dynamics of Internal vs External Processing
    Jun 26 2025

    The way we process information fundamentally shapes how we communicate, collaborate, and connect with others. In this illuminating episode, we dive deep into the "Tree vs Forest" dimension of the Interface Methods connectivity tool – exploring the profound difference between internal processors (Trees) who prefer thinking before speaking, and external processors (Forests) who develop their thoughts through conversation.

    This distinction goes far beyond simple personality differences. As we explain, these processing preferences are behavioral, not hardwired, meaning anyone can adapt their approach once they understand the dynamics at play. Through compelling real-world examples, we reveal how these different processing styles can either create friction or foster remarkable collaboration when properly understood.

    We share a fascinating case study of a high-level executive relationship nearly derailed by this very communication gap, and how simple awareness transformed their collaboration. You'll discover that neither style inherently predicts success – in one organization's sales team, top performers were evenly split between internal and external processors. The key difference? The top performers understood how to leverage their natural preferences while adapting to others.

    For team leaders, this episode offers practical strategies to ensure balanced participation that honors both processing styles, including a revealing poker chip exercise that transforms group dynamics. Sales professionals and customer service representatives will gain valuable insights for recognizing and adapting to customer processing preferences, creating more productive interactions.

    Whether you're building teams, managing relationships, or simply trying to connect more effectively with the people in your life, understanding the Tree vs Forest dynamic will transform how you communicate. Visit getedges.com/inter-face-methods to learn more about our connectivity tool and discover resources to help you build stronger, more effective connections.

    Follow and stay connected:

    Website: fourbarspodcast.com
    YouTube: youtube.com/@FourBarsPodcast
    Instagram: @edges_Inc
    Facebook: EDGES Inc.
    LinkedIn: EDGES Inc.

    Never miss an update—follow, subscribe, and join the conversation!

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    29 mins
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