Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a celebrated scholar, stateswoman and activist who has championed women's rights and liberal values while opposing identity politics and religious extremism. She has been maligned for her views, and as you will hear her say here, she has made mistakes along the way. But I was honored to speak to Ayaan because she has always struck me as a true example of moral and intellectual courage.

Please enjoy this short conversation touching on virtue, philosophical nonviolence and the work of Martin Luther King Jr., polarization and race with one of the most fascinating public personalities in the world.

Is "Wokism" a religion?

The modern antiracist movement, often referred to as the Woke movement, has provoked backlash for seemingly seeking to deplatform and censor Americans with dissenting points of view, and attributing racism to wide swaths of American society. According to John McWhorter, this is because "Wokism" is less an ideology and more an irrational religion.

But is it? I ask John some questions to see if he isn't rushing to this characterization too quickly. As always John is ready to respond.

www.braverangels.org

Twitter: @JohnHMcWhorter @JohnRWoodJr @BraverAngels

Is the black American experience defined by race in 2021? Or are the struggles of millions of African-Americans far more a symptom of class?

Bertrand Cooper is a deeply insightful yet underappreciated voice on the intersections of race and poverty in American life. In our conversation we talk about popular culture's representation of black life, the differences in the black experience as a function of class, and Bertrand's own compelling journey through race, poverty and the ladder of education.

Read Bertrand's seminal essay Who Actually Gets to Create Black Pop Culture for Current Affairs: 

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/07/who-actually-gets-to-create-black-pop-culture

Twitter: @_BlackTrash @braverangels @JohnRWoodJr 

Websites: www.braverangels.org