In this episode, we welcome Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow of the Governance Studies program at Brookings Institution and the author of nine books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer of The Atlantic and recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry’s equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. His latest book, published in 2025 by Yale, is Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy.

Our discussion explores Jonathan's deep interest in and perspectives on Christianity as "a load bearing wall" for American democracy, challenges faced by mainline and evangelical churches, and the differences between what he calls "thin, sharp, and thick" religious expressions of faith. Jonathan underscores the importance of core Christian principles like fearlessness, imitation of Jesus, and forgiveness in strengthening America's democratic fabric. The conversation provides insights into lessons that secular and religious communities can learn from each other to address political polarization and foster a more unified society.

Guest Links

• Website (https://www.jonathanrauch.com/)
• Bluesky (‪@jonrauch.bsky.social‬)

Episode Summary

00:00 Introduction

01:08 Jonathan's Relationship with Faith and Religion

01:56 The Role of Religion in Society

03:35 Experiences in Japan and Spiritual Insights

04:33 Religion as a Human Universal

09:44 Christianity's Role in Democracy

13:55 Challenges Facing American Churches Today

18:27 The LDS Church and Civic Theology

29:52 Radical Incrementalism and Truth

36:03 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Join host Mark Beckwith, retired bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and guest Rev. Rick Joyner, a prominent Evangelical leader, author, public speaker, and founder of Morningstar Ministries, a multi-faceted mission organization which includes Heritage International Ministries, MorningStar University, and MorningStar Fellowship of Churches and Ministries.

We explore how to respectfully build mutual understanding and work together across our differences. Rick shares about his life-changing conversion, his strong support for President Trump as well as first-hand experiences and impressions of him, his belief in God as the greatest unifier, and the challenges and hopes that he sees for the country. We also discuss finding unity in diversity and the ongoing pursuit of liberty and justice for all.

Guest Links

• MorningStar Ministries Website
• Facebook (MorningStar Ministries)
• Facebook (Rick Joyner)
• YouTube (Rick Joyner Official)
• Books (MorningStar Book Store)

In this episode we welcome Jim Wallis, a writer, teacher, preacher and justice advocate who believes the gospel of Jesus must be emancipated from its cultural and political captivities. He is a New York Times bestselling author, public theologian, preacher and commentator on ethics and public life. He is the inaugural holder of the Chair in Faith and Justice and the founding Director of the Georgetown University Center on Faith and Justice. He is the founder of Sojourners, and is the author of 12 books and host of the popular podcast The Soul of the Nation.

Jim and I discuss his faith journey, his founding the Sojourner community and magazine, his current role as the Desmond Tutu Chair for Faith and Justice at Georgetown University, lessons he learned from Bishop Tutu in South Africa, the difference between hope and optimism, and the importance of integrating faith with the pursuit of justice. Our dialogue delves into responding to Christian nationalism, advocating for the poor, and maintaining hope in challenging times.

Guest Links

• Center on Faith & Justice at Georgetown University
• The Jim Wallis Podcast: Soul of a Nation
• Books
• Substack Blog
• Facebook
• Bluesky (@revjimwallis.bsky.social)
• X / Twitter (@jimwallis)