Daniel and Jenna talk about how their recovery programs are evolving as their lives and circumstances change. Jenna opens up about this transitional time in her life and how she hasn't felt inspired to commit time or energy to her recovery program. They discuss boredom and discovering new hobbies or ways to have fun. Daniel explains (through some minor technical difficulties) how the change of seasons makes him uncomfortable and the importance of staying focused on recovery during this time.

Daniel and Jenna talk about leading double lives in active addition. They discuss the level of denial they were both in when telling themselves they were successful parents, partners, and professionals while maintaining an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Daniel shares about recently researching gummies which leads to a discussion about having addictive personalities and how it can sneak in at unexpected times.

Daniel tells Jenna about a recent mom & daughter gathering at his house that ended with Daniel ubering a couple friends home. They talk about "mommy wine culture" as Jenna recalls some of her play date experiences as a mom of young children. They discuss the mental energy they used to watch, calculate and plan their drinking when trying to fit in with parent functions.