Why MQLs Are Broken (And What to Measure Instead)

B2B marketers are under pressure to generate pipeline. But the truth is, most of us are stuck operating inside a broken GTM system that was never built for how buyers actually buy.

In this episode, we’re joined by Steve Patti — 7x CMO, 3x sales leader, and creator of the Brand Demand Expand framework — alongside Adem Manderovic, co-founder of CRO School and architect of Closed Circuit Selling.

Together, we unpack why the MQL became marketing’s biggest mistake, how misaligned incentives broke sales and marketing, and how to rebuild your go-to-market so it’s actually commercially viable.

Steve shares real stories — including how he used account intelligence to guide $200M in CapEx — and outlines the system he used to align sales, marketing, and product around real buyer needs.

Tune in and learn:

+ Why MQLs are based on “fantasy intent” — and what to track instead

+ How to replace lead gen with real account intelligence

+ What sales, marketing, and CS need to align on to win deals (and renew them)

If you’re a B2B marketer frustrated with misaligned GTM motions, noisy Martech promises, and the pressure to deliver pipeline from people not ready to buy — this episode is a must-watch.

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🔗 Links + CTAs

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💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency

🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school

🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course

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🧑‍🎓ACCESS our B2B COURSES: https://theb2bplaybook.com/courses

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theb2bplaybook

📩 Newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletter/

📚 Latest content: https://theb2bplaybook.com/

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00:00 Why MQLs Are a Lie We Keep Telling Ourselves

02:10 Sales and Marketing Broke Each Other

04:00 How Martech Incentivised the Wrong Behaviours

06:00 The Rise of GTM Engineers (and Why It’s Dangerous)

07:30 What Sales Used to Measure vs. Today’s Mess

09:00 From Carrying the Bag to Calling the Bluff

12:00 Brand Still Matters More Than Martech Tells You

15:00 Why “Create Demand” is the Wrong Idea

17:00 The Real GTM Fix: Start With Account Intelligence

19:30 Cataloguing the Market: The Mid-Market Hosting Playbook

23:00 A Real Example of ABM Done Right

26:00 The Problem With ABM Without ABS

28:00 Make Marketing the Wingman, Not the Hero

30:00 Stop Guessing: Why Marketing Shouldn’t Chase Intent

33:00 Micro-Events That Actually Move Pipeline

36:00 IVP Fit: Ideal Vendor Profile vs Ideal Customer Profile

39:00 Don’t Waste Sales Time on Unwinnable Deals

41:00 Sales Looks Right to Left, Marketing Left to Right

44:00 Closed Lost Isn’t the End—It’s an Opportunity

47:00 When CS Is Set Up to Fail From the Start

50:00 Reactivating Lost Deals With Class

54:00 The Real Reason So Many GTM Systems Fail

57:00 How PE and VC Killed Long-Term Thinking

1:00:00 The Problem With Building to Sell, Not to Last

1:03:00 Want Behaviour Change? Fix Beliefs, Not Just KPIs

1:06:00 The Pyramid of Beliefs, Values, and Actions

1:09:00 How to Convince the C-Suite to Change GTM

1:12:00 Final Thoughts: This Isn’t Just a Sales Problem...

Most marketers still obsess over Google blue links. We’re here to show why that’s yesterday’s game.

We sat down with SEO legend Sam Dunning to unpack the new frontier of search: LLM SEO (aka Generative Engine Optimisation). Sam reveals a repeatable 90-day plan that gets your brand cited - not just ranked - inside ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity and Google’s AI Overview.

You’ll hear the exact tactics small teams can use to out-manoeuvre enterprise giants: think listicle “cheat codes”, brand-mention campaigns, and Reddit seeding that LLMs love.

Tune in and learn:

+ Zero-click search - why clicks are disappearing and how to adapt

+ Brand mentions are better than backlinks - the new authority signal LLMs crave

+ 90-day sprint - ship pages, listicles and PR faster than big brands

This episode is a must-watch if you need organic search to drive pipeline (not vanity traffic) in 2025 and beyond.

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🔗 Links + CTAs

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💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency

🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school

🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course

-----------------------------------------------------

🧑‍🎓ACCESS our B2B COURSES: https://theb2bplaybook.com/courses

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theb2bplaybook

📩 Newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletter/

📚 Latest content: https://theb2bplaybook.com/

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00:00 AI vs SEO: Why This Matters Now

01:40 The Biggest Search Shake-Up in 10 Years

03:10 Enter the Zero-Click Era

04:35 Is Google Still Worth Chasing?

06:20 Should You Stop “Traditional” SEO?

08:05 How to Optimise for LLM Search

09:55 Solution-Aware Content That Wins

11:25 LLMs Don’t Rank Pages—They Chunk Them

13:05 Brand Mentions: The New Backlink

15:40 Listicles: Your AI Cheat Code

18:20 Build Detailed Use-Case Pages Fast

21:05 Early-Mover Advantage (Act Now)

23:30 Reddit & Quora: Secret SEO Weapons

26:10 Tracking the Un-Trackable in AI Search

29:55 The 90-Day Playbook to Beat Giants

33:35 Speed & Experimentation = Moat

40:10 Creative Tactics + Close

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👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??

💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)

Get the:

🔹 strategy

🔹 templates

🔹 tools

So you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.

See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B Incubator

https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course

S07 E190 - The B2B Playbook

#b2b #b2bmarketing #digitalmarketing #b2bsaas #seo #AISEO

We sat down with sales legend Leslie Venetz and CRO School co-founder Adem Manderovic to untangle why outbound is still stuck in 2011—and how modern SDRs and BDRs can fix it fast.

Outbound targets have never been tougher, yet teams keep blasting buyers with the same tired sequences. In this no-fluff chat, we unpack a buyer-first framework that swaps brute-force tactics for trust-led outreach and market validation.

Tune in and learn:

+ The “earn the right” test Leslie uses before every email or call

+ How to rebuild SDR metrics around market validations - fast

+ Why AI tools like Clay help only when you start with real buyer insight

This episode is a must-watch if you’re serious about building a profit-generating pipeline without burning trust (or your team).

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🔗 Links + CTAs

-----------------------------------------------------

💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency

🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school

🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course

-----------------------------------------------------

🧑‍🎓ACCESS our B2B COURSES: https://theb2bplaybook.com/courses

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theb2bplaybook

📩 Newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletter/

📚 Latest content: https://theb2bplaybook.com/

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00:00 Outbound Playbooks Still Stuck in 2011

04:00 Leslie’s Mission – Make Sales Respected Again

08:00 “Earn the Right” – Trust Before Tactics

12:00 Why Most Outbound Emails Flop

16:00 Attribution Wars & Broken GTM Alignment

20:00 Enterprise Buying Lessons on Repeatability

24:00 The SDR Industrial Complex Exposed

28:00 Relevance vs Personalization – Hard Stop

32:00 AI & Clay: Shiny Objects or Real Help?

36:00 You Can’t Automate Trust – Shortcut Myth

40:00 Growth-Hack Tactics That Kill Pipeline

44:00 Fixing SDR Metrics with Market Validation

48:00 Timing, MQLs & Sales-Marketing Unity

52:00 Hard Questions, Tonality & Buyer Respect

56:00 Key Takeaways & Where to Find Leslie

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👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??

💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)

Get the:

🔹 strategy

🔹 templates

🔹 tools

So you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.

See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B Incubator

https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course

S07 E189 - The B2B Playbook

#b2b #b2bmarketing #sales #outbound #SDR