Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?

If you’re serving a small church that’s considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.

Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Navigating the Post-Pandemic Landscape of Worship.

Links:

• SmallChurchCoaching.com
• LinkTree
• You can follow Sam on Facebook and X

Bonus video

The Limitations of the Institutional Church in Reaching the Community

Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about some of the limitations that are now coming to light about the institutional church model (building, salary, etc.) that we’ve both spent our lives in. The challenges we talk about include:

1. Physical and Financial Constraints: Many churches invest most of their resources into maintaining buildings and programs rather than directly engaging the lost. This is especially difficult for smaller congregations.

2. Passive Churchgoers Instead of Active Disciple-Makers: Institutional churches can unintentionally foster a consumer mindset, where members attend services but are not equipped to lead or disciple others.

3. Limited Reach Beyond Church Walls: Most churches expect people to come to them rather than embedding the Gospel in everyday life and relationships.

4. Slow Adaptation to Cultural Shifts: In an age of rapid change, large churches with complex structures often struggle to pivot quickly to meet new challenges and opportunities.

5. Overemphasis on Sunday Gatherings: The primary focus in many churches is the Sunday experience, but disciple-making happens most effectively in smaller, relational environments.

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Karl Vaters interviews Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests.

Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.

Karl and Desmond talk about:

• How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pew
• Why sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guests
• Why so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be done
• Why “we just need to attract young families” is never the answer
• The good news that new Christians are not looking for programs, they’re wanting to live on mission

Links:

• Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance
• Revitalizing the Declining Church with Dr. Desmond Barrett (podcast)
• Desmond's Amazon Author Page
• Libby App

Bonus video

5 Options When a Church Property is Too Big for the Congregation, with Desmond Barrett

Karl Vaters talks with Desmond Barrett, the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, about a subject that is a challenge for a growing number of congregations. What can you do when a church facility that was built to hold hundreds of people has just a handful or worshipers left?

The five options they discuss are:

1. Do Nothing
2. Share the Property
3. Rent the Property
4. Sell the Property
5. Recreate the Property

Links: Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance

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Karl Vaters interviews Brad Hill about some of the latest findings concerning the church and technology.

Brad is the Chief Solutions Officer at Gloo, an organization that came out of nowhere a few years ago, and now seems to be everywhere.

After clarifying Karl’s curiosity about who/what Gloo actually is, they talk about some of the important findings from a recent study Gloo conducted with Barna.

If you’re not an early adopter of technology, this can help you navigate the fast-changing landscape without getting bogged down in details.

The five findings Karl and Brad discuss are:

1. Christians see huge potential for churches to use digital tools effectively.
2. Churchgoers want pastors to address AI use thoughtfully and wisely.
3. Gen Z may live online, but they still crave in-person relationships over digital connections.
4. Practicing Gen Z Christians feel uncertain about whether AI is a faithful tool.
5. Pastors are intentional about using tech but still prioritize relationships and collaboration as the foundation of ministry.

Links:

• Gloo
• State of the Church research
• Digital Tools article
• Barna

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Eric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.

Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.

Eric’s new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.

This conversation covers the subjects of:

• The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this road
• The value pastors bring to the marketplace
• Finding your marketable skills through using the Heart- Head-Hands-Feet method
• How to get through the clutter of thousands of job applicants
• How to present yourself and your skills
• And so much more

Links from this episode:

• Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress
• IHelpPastorsGetJobs.com
• Daily Examen App: "Reimagining the Examen" for iphone and android

How to Build a LinkedIn Profile that Will Get Job Leads, with Eric Hoke

LinkedIn remains a primary online site for those seeking employment, and it’s especially helpful for pastors seeking covocational employment.

In this very practical conversation, Eric Hoke talks with Karl Vaters about some common mistakes to avoid and opportunities to take advantage of that will get you noticed—and get the side hustle job that suits your skills and needs.

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For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor’s relationship with God’s Word, the Bible.

In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher’s kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor’s home.

In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:

• What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor’s home
• How to give the Bible a central place in our homes
• The importance of living what you’re preaching
• How to approach the Bible correctly as a pastor and a parent
• And more

Links:

• John Lennox: God Does Exist
• John Lennox: The Bible and age of the earth?
• John Lennox: Why I am a Christian and a scientist

Karl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).

He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.

This interview is raw. It’s real, and it’s very emotional.

In addition to talking through his testimony at length, Karl and Russ also take a song-by-song walk through his newest album, which is a journey through his story of pain, trauma, lament, and redemption.

Links:

• Cover Story (The album)
• RussTaff.com
• Become a Financial Partner
• Subscribe to Karl's free weekly newsletter

Alberto Bello is a church planter in Bakersfield CA, and he’s written one of those books everyone says they could write, Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership.

Karl Vaters talks with Alberto about that book, the experiences that led to it, and the lessons to be learned from it.

Including:

• Knowing who you are in Jesus
• The Comparison Trap
• How failure is necessary for success
• How not to be people-pleasing leader
• And more

Links:

Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership

Mike Rubino is a pastor in the unique ministry environment of Long Island NY. He’s also the founder and director of Church Revitalize, which helps churches that need to revitalize their ministry, through cohorts, coaching, and more.

Karl Vaters talks with Mike about church revitalization, with a focus on Mike’s new workbook, The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health.

Subjects include:

• The difference between church growth and church revitalization
• The importance of pastoral health and renewal
• How to understand and fix your church’s blind spots
• Identifying your church’s God-given Geographic Responsibility
• And more

Links:

• Church Revitalize
• The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health
• BeTheChurch.org
• Book - Crucial Conversations

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