Who really controls the flow of money in payment systems? The answer might surprise you. In this eye-opening conversation with payments industry veteran Eric Grover of Intrepid Ventures (https://intrepidventures.net/), we uncover the fundamental power dynamics that determine how interchange fees move through the ecosystem.

Eric and Christopher Dryden, Esq., discuss how payment system economics fundamentally flow toward those who can affect transaction volume, explaining why interchange typically benefits issuers rather than merchants. He explores the regulatory challenges facing the payments industry, from CFPB restructuring to state-level interchange restrictions that threaten to create an expensive, unworkable compliance patchwork.

• Interchange fees flow to issuers because they can affect payment volume share, while merchants are typically price takers
• Asymmetric pricing is at the core of merchant and acquirer discomfort with the current system
• The CFPB is being dramatically scaled back under the new administration, potentially creating a regulatory vacuum
• State-level interchange regulations like Illinois' ban on fees for tax and tips pose multi-billion dollar compliance challenges
• Industry consolidation continues with Global's acquisition of WorldPay, though earlier mega-mergers are partially unwinding
• ISOs must evolve beyond payment processing to remain relevant, with software integration becoming essential
• Payment protectionism is increasing globally as countries develop national systems and resist foreign processors
• Central banks in countries like Brazil both regulate payment systems and compete directly in the market

Grover explains that despite merchant complaints about interchange costs, the flow of fees to issuers isn't primarily about covering expenses—it's about economic leverage. Banks can shift transaction volume between networks, giving them bargaining power that merchants typically lack. This creates what Grover calls "asymmetric pricing," where acquirers and merchants become price takers in the system. But what would happen if consumers became completely indifferent about which payment method they used? The entire economic model might flip, with interchange potentially flowing to merchants instead.

The regulatory landscape is undergoing seismic shifts as the CFPB faces dramatic restructuring under the new administration. While the Supreme Court upheld the bureau's funding mechanism, its staffing and focus are being radically curtailed. This creates a regulatory vacuum that states are rushing to fill—with potentially disastrous consequences. Illinois and Colorado are already implementing state-level interchange regulations that would cost billions to implement and create a compliance nightmare for payment processors, networks, and merchants alike.

Meanwhile, industry consolidation continues with Global's acquisition of WorldPay, though interestingly, we're seeing a reversal of the "mega-processor" trend from 2019-2020. Companies that once touted the benefits of operating across the entire payments value chain are now divesting units, suggesting that management complexity and cultural integration challenges can outweigh theoretical synergies.

Contact Eric Grover at eric.grover@intrepidventures.com to learn more about navigating these complex industry dynamics and staying ahead of the regulatory curve.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Anthony Malatesta, Principal at Wellesley Hills Financial (https://www.wellesleyhillsfinancial.com/) joins Global Legal Law Firm’s Christopher Dryden and Jeremy Stock to share crucial insights about positioning payment businesses for optimal valuation and successful exits.

What's the real difference between a merely profitable payments business and one that commands premium multiples at exit? According to Anthony Malatesta of Wellesley Hills Financial Group, it comes down to intentional preparation, data analytics, and strategic positioning.

The journey into payments is rarely planned. For Anthony, it began with an unpaid college internship that evolved into a career at the intersection of capital markets and payment processing. This unique perspective allows him to bridge operational realities with financial valuations – precisely what most business owners lack when focused on day-to-day operations.

Most payment professionals are shocked to discover how unprepared their businesses are for potential exit opportunities. When asked for basic operational information like employee compensation structures or downline agent contracts, many admit it would take weeks to compile – a deficiency that can slash millions from transaction values during due diligence. The businesses commanding premium valuations have systematized their operations, reporting, and financial management long before exit opportunities emerge.

While many industry voices have declared "the ISO model is dying" for over a decade, Anthony reveals a more nuanced reality. Traditional processing-only models face compression, but software-integrated payment businesses are securing extraordinary multiples – some reaching 80-90x compared to traditional 30x valuations. The market continues rewarding businesses that increase merchant stickiness through vertical-specific solutions and additional value-added services.

For payment professionals contemplating strategic positioning, Anthony emphasizes "product over price" approaches rather than racing to the bottom with rebates or cash discount programs. The most valuable businesses have shifted from transactional relationships to becoming essential operational partners for their merchants. This approach not only reduces attrition but creates multiple revenue streams that significantly enhance valuation.

Perhaps most critically, Anthony highlights the importance of understanding your business at a granular level – from attrition metrics to sales team performance analytics. These insights enable strategic adjustments that directly impact enterprise value, creating intentional pathways toward successful exits.

Ready to transform how you approach your payments business? Connect with Anthony and his team at MerchantPortfolios.com or WellesleyHillsFinancial.com to discover what your business is truly worth and how to maximize its value for your eventual exit.

Take control of your business future by understanding the true value drivers in your portfolio and building an intentional strategy to maximize them. Your exit value depends on it.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today:

https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Two payments industry veteran experts talk about electronic payments in a way you have never heard before. Join Christopher Dryden, Esq., and special guest Allen Kopelman, Nationwide Payment Systems, Inc., for this in-depth, fascinating discussion.

Check out Allen’s new NPS One platform coming soon, offering merchants a comprehensive business tool with rapid approval, virtual terminal capabilities, invoicing, links to accounting, embedded finance options, and more.

The payments landscape is transforming rapidly through consolidation, technology integration, and changing fee structures, leaving merchants and payment professionals scrambling to adapt. Major processor mergers like Global Payments acquiring WorldPay have reduced competition while software companies increasingly control payment relationships, disrupting traditional ISO business models.

Software has become the central battleground in payments. When every business operation connects to software platforms, those platforms increasingly dictate payment processing choices. "ISO software is the new ISO," as one expert noted, with many businesses finding their payment options restricted by their essential software providers. Private equity-backed companies are purchasing previously "agnostic" platforms and redirecting merchant payment streams, creating significant challenges for payment professionals who built businesses on residual income.

Dual pricing (formerly cash discounting) and surcharging have emerged as critical merchant strategies, with approximately 35% now passing processing fees to customers. This shift occurs amid complex regulatory challenges – Visa capping surcharges at 3% while MasterCard maintains 4%, alongside state-specific regulations in New York, New Jersey, California, and Colorado. Merchants face practical implementation hurdles, especially in retail environments where displaying dual pricing on physical merchandise creates logistical nightmares.

Despite digital acceleration, cash maintains surprising resilience. Many workers receiving pay cards immediately withdraw cash, while certain business segments (contractors, repair services, salons) continue offering cash incentives. One payments expert reported dispensing over a million dollars monthly from a small ATM fleet, demonstrating cash's enduring role in specific economic sectors.

The industry faces critical ethical challenges too. Some agents program terminals to display higher surcharges than merchants actually pay, creating hidden profit centers. Others establish questionable referral relationships that potentially violate card brand rules or trigger money transmitter regulations. Without industry-wide agent tracking or standardized licensing, these problematic practices continue unchecked.

What does this mean for your business? Understanding these shifting dynamics helps you make informed decisions about payment processing, software integration, and fee structures. Whether you're considering implementing dual pricing, evaluating integrated software options, or simply trying to minimize processing costs, staying informed about industry trends provides crucial competitive advantage in an increasingly complex payments ecosystem.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Go say hello to our guest Allen Kopelman over at https://nationwidepaymentsystems.com/

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

From ATMs so novel they didn't even have a name to AI-powered payment systems that can take your order perfectly—the payments landscape has transformed dramatically since the 1970s. Joining Chris Dryden on the Payments Experts Podcast today is Patti Murphy, the "Payments Maven of the Fourth Estate," whose four-decade journey covering payment technology offers a unique perspective on how far we've come and where we're headed.

• Beginning her payments career in 1977 editing an EFT examination handbook when ATMs were so new they didn't even have that name
• Discussing current CFPB changes under the new administration, including regulations affecting big tech payment apps handling $13 trillion annually
• Explaining how real-time payments differ from services like Venmo and Zelle, which appear instant but process through traditional channels
• Exploring Durbin 2.0 and its requirements that merchants have choice of networks, with only one owned by Visa or Mastercard
• Examining Illinois' groundbreaking payment regulation and how 20 other states are developing similar legislation
• Looking at the evolution of ISOs through partnerships with software vendors and adoption of AI technology
• Highlighting innovative payment technologies including AI-powered ordering systems and SKU management for small retailers

Patti shares fascinating insights about her early days editing an EFT examination handbook in 1977, witnessing the birth of electronic payments when the technology was so revolutionary that people joked about "a hand sticking out of a television handing you money." That science fiction has become our everyday reality.

We dive deep into current regulatory challenges facing payment processors. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's changing role under different administrations has created a regulatory rollercoaster, particularly for big tech payment apps handling a staggering $13 trillion in annual transactions. Meanwhile, the Illinois legislation targeting card brands represents an unprecedented state-level challenge to payment networks—with 20 other states considering similar measures. Could this finally force federal action?

The conversation explores real-time payments and how they differ from services like Venmo that merely create the appearance of instant transfers. We unpack Durbin 2.0's potential impact on network competition, and how the Capital One acquisition of Discover adds a fascinating new dimension to the payments ecosystem.

For payment professionals, we examine how ISOs continue to evolve through partnerships with software vendors, combining sales expertise with technological innovation. The rise of AI-powered payment solutions—from automated ordering systems to comprehensive inventory management—represents both challenges and opportunities for industry veterans and newcomers alike.

Whether you're a payment professional, merchant, or simply fascinated by how money moves in our digital economy, this episode offers valuable perspective on an industry that, as Patti puts it, "is the engine that keeps the economy going." Subscribe now and join the conversation about the past, present, and future of payments!

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit us today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Paul Hadfield shares his journey from college dropout to successful payment processor, emphasizing the importance of building sticky merchant relationships through technology and customer service rather than treating them as short-term revenue sources. Enjoy this conversation with James Huber, managing partner of Global Legal Law Firm.

• Started in payments in 2001 after answering a newspaper ad while contemplating dropping out of college
• Built and sold his first ISO in 2013, then created another payment processing company focused on long-term business building
• Transitioned from a pure sales approach to technology-focused solutions as the industry evolved
• Created a cash discount application for Clover that now has approximately 7,000 active users
• Observed how COVID changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees
• Focused business strategy on restaurant industry where point-of-sale systems can function as a "central nervous system"
• Recently sold his second payments company while maintaining an entrepreneurial role
• Believes in fostering honest feedback from employees to drive continuous improvement
• Values building businesses with long-term vision rather than short-term profit goals

Contact Paul at paulhadfield.co or email him at paul@trnxn.com.

Imagine starting your career in the basement of a dental office, slinging merchant accounts on 100% commission, and building that hustle into multiple successful payment processing companies. That's exactly what Paul Hadfield did after answering a newspaper ad that promised ongoing monthly residuals for each sale—a concept so appealing it prompted him to drop out of college.

What separates Paul's approach from many in the payments industry is his fundamental philosophy: "Never lose a customer." While some processors view merchants as revenue sources to exploit with hidden fees and restrictive contracts, Paul built his businesses treating merchants as long-term partners. This perspective became increasingly critical as the industry evolved from simple terminal-based systems to sophisticated technology platforms.

The conversation explores how the payments landscape has transformed dramatically over the past two decades. Around 2016-2017, Paul noticed a pivotal shift where technology began outweighing relationships and pricing as the deciding factor for merchants. This realization led him to develop specialized solutions like a cash discount application for Clover and focus intensely on the restaurant industry, where point-of-sale systems can function as a business's "central nervous system" when properly implemented.

Perhaps most fascinating is Paul's observation about how the pandemic fundamentally changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees. Pre-COVID, implementing surcharges or cash discounts often met resistance; post-pandemic, these practices gained widespread acceptance as consumers became more understanding of businesses' need to offset costs.

After building and selling multiple payment companies, Paul shares valuable insights about entrepreneurship, leadership challenges, and the delicate balance of providing honest feedback in organizations. Whether you're in the payments industry or running any business, his journey offers valuable lessons about building sticky customer relationships and adapting to technological change without losing your core values.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Jeff and Hersh Moskowitz share how their payment processing journey led to the creation of Tuzo (https://www.tuzorewards.com/), a revolutionary rewards program that helps ISOs build stronger merchant relationships and increase portfolio value.

• Started in point-of-sale systems in 2009, primarily serving convenience, liquor, and tobacco stores
• Pioneered dual pricing/cash discount methodology around 2012-2013 following the Dodd-Frank Durbin Amendment
• Developed Tuzo as a solution to the "race to zero" pricing problem plaguing payment processors
• Created a rewards program where merchants earn points based on processing volume that can be redeemed for luxury items and experiences
• Merchants willingly accept higher processing rates to participate in rewards programs
• Merchants activate faster when earning rewards and are less likely to switch processors
• Sales process transforms from selling processing to "selling dreams" with rewards as the focus
• Positive touchpoints replace traditionally negative interactions between processors and merchants
• Book values increase with rewards implementation due to increased merchant stickiness
• Merchant relationships strengthen when processors help fulfill aspirational goals like vacations or luxury items

Imagine turning every payment transaction into a positive experience for both merchants and processors alike. That's exactly what Tuzo Rewards has accomplished with their groundbreaking merchant rewards program.

Jeff and Hersh, the founders of Tuzo Rewards, take us on their journey from point-of-sale system developers to payment processing revolutionaries. After pioneering cash discount programs following the Dodd-Frank Durbin Amendment around 2012-2013, they recognized a fundamental flaw in the payment processing industry: the only time merchants contacted their processors was when something went wrong, creating an inherently negative relationship dynamic.

Their solution? Create a rewards program where merchants earn points based on their processing volume that can be redeemed for luxury watches, vacations, electronics, and more. The results have been nothing short of transformative. Rather than competing solely on price in the endless "race to zero," processors can now offer something genuinely valuable that competitors can't easily match.

Perhaps most surprising is how this program has reversed pricing trends. Merchants are willingly accepting higher rates (often moving from 3.5% back to 3.99%) just to participate in the rewards program. This creates a win-win scenario where merchants receive tangible benefits they truly value while processors maintain healthier margins. For ISOs and agents, the sales conversation shifts dramatically from "Let me save you money" to "What rewards would you like to earn?" - turning transaction processors into dream facilitators.

Ready to transform your payment processing business with a solution that creates positive touchpoints throughout the merchant relationship? Discover how Tuzo Rewards is changing the game by visiting tuzoRewards.com or reaching out to Jeff@tuzoRewards.com and Hersh@tuzoRewards.com.

Visit us today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

If you’re a merchant and you want help with chargebacks, this episode is for you! Friendly fraud is anything but friendly for merchants. In this eye-opening discussion, expert payments attorneys Larry Haines and Bryce Van De Moere expose the growing epidemic of customers who receive goods or services, then fraudulently dispute legitimate charges with their credit card companies. It’s chargebacks, baby – and they’re a growing problem.

Banks allocate mere minutes to review chargebacks and overwhelmingly side with cardholders—approximately 97% of the time—regardless of evidence presented. For merchants left holding the bag, this creates a seemingly impossible situation. But there's hope in pursuing legal remedies directly against these fraudsters.

The attorneys reveal powerful strategies for merchants to fight back, including litigation that can recover up to triple damages plus attorney's fees under California law. They explain how mechanics liens (which despite the name, aren't just for auto repairs) provide strong protection for anyone who provides labor or materials improving real property—from contractors to plumbers to classic car restorers.

Most compelling is their insight into the psychology of these fraudsters. Many are serial offenders whose confidence grows with each successful chargeback, escalating from small disputes to brazen theft. Picture someone staying at a hotel for three weeks, paying a $10,000 bill, then disputing the entire charge despite completing their stay.

For merchants tired of being victimized, this podcast offers a roadmap to recovery. With proper documentation and legal guidance, businesses can not only recover what's rightfully theirs but also develop a reputation that deters future fraudsters. The attorneys recommend focusing on disputes exceeding $5,000-$10,000, where the cost-benefit analysis favors legal action.

Ready to stop letting fraudsters walk away with your products and services? Learn how to turn the tables and make them pay.

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Credit card processors and banks are putting merchants on the Match List without proper investigation or due process, even when merchants comply with removal requests for prohibited products.

• Merchants being placed on Match List for having inventory of prohibited products, even with no sales
• Banks failing to provide evidence of actual rules violations when challenged
• Match List fines starting at $200,000 are negotiated down through the chain while merchants still pay full amount
• Peptide research facilities being "blanket" matched despite operating transparently
• Banks and MasterCard showing indifference to wrongful Match listings
• Legal action often necessary as banks ignore reasonable requests for evidence
• Merchant processing agreements prohibit class actions, making legal recourse difficult
• Documenting all compliance efforts critical when facing potential Match listing

If you're facing Match List issues, document all communication, challenge banks to show evidence of processed payments for prohibited items, and consider legal representation to navigate the process.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit us today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm