This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan are joined by performance scientist, coach, and author Steve Magness for a deep dive into the messy, meaningful side of mental toughness. Known for calling BS on outdated notions of grit, Steve shares insights from his latest book, Win the Inside Game, and challenges the idea that suffering is the only path to success. Instead, he makes the case for curiosity, flexibility, and joy as essential ingredients for growth, not just in running, but in life. Together, they explore how identity, external validation, and over-optimization can get in the way of real performance.

Steve explains why some of the fastest runners he’s coached only started thriving once they let go of the pressure to be a runner, and how elite athletes like Sara Hall have learned to recalibrate their goals to preserve their peace of mind. He makes the case for ditching the data when it stops serving us, and why meaningful community—not metrics—is what actually makes us better.

They also unpack what running has to teach us about feeling deeply, building connection, and making space for the full human experience. Whether it’s the emotional highs of crewing a friend at 2 a.m., the quiet power of a watchless workout, or the absurd relief of pushing an empty jogging stroller just to feel fast again—this conversation is a funny, honest, and refreshing reminder that running doesn’t have to be a grind. It can be recess. And maybe that’s the whole point.

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This week on The Trailhead, we're joined by one of the most thoughtful voices in endurance sports writing: Alex Hutchinson. You might know him from his Outside column, Sweat Science, or his bestselling book Endure. But today, we’re talking about his newest work—The Explorer’s Gene—and what it reveals about why we push into the unknown, whether we’re climbing literal mountains or trying the weirdest thing on a menu.

In this wide-ranging and unexpectedly hilarious conversation, we dig into:

• The "explore vs. exploit" dilemma, and how it shows up in our running, routines, and lives
• Why inefficiency is essential to joy and creativity
• How kids (and ultrarunners) are wired for uncertainty
• The effort paradox: why hard things feel more meaningful
• What AI, IKEA furniture, and running have in common

Alex also shares how becoming a parent and moving beyond his “Endurance Science Guy” brand shaped his perspective on curiosity, comfort zones, and career detours.

Whether you’re stuck in a rut, planning your next big adventure, or wondering if it's time to zag instead of zig, this one’s for you.

This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan put coach and writer Mario Fraioli in the hot seat with their burning trail running questions.

From “How slow is too slow?” to “When does running become hiking?” we tackle the big, the small, and the existential dilemmas runners face on (and off) the trail.
Come for the laughs, stay for Mario's wisdom, and find out why running might just be a Sisyphean project we willingly signed up for.

Check out Mario on the Morning Shakeout.

This episode is brought to you by Arc'teryx Footwear. The Vertex Speed is your new go-to for mountain adventures. Obsessively designed. Athlete-tested. Trailhead approved.

Available online and in Arc'teryx stores.

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