Law schools manipulate scholarships to obscure what they’re actually willing to pay for LSAT scores. Ben and Nathan reveal how some schools offer up to $40,000 per LSAT point. They introduce the “Disparity Index” to show how wildly different financial outcomes can be for students at the same school. Don’t settle for mediocre scores—top LSAT performance unlocks the best deals.

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0:30 – LSAT Buyer’s Club

Ben and Nathan dig into how much law schools pay for LSAT scores. They introduce the Disparity Index—calculated by subtracting a school’s 75th percentile grant from full price—as a measure of that school’s willingness to buy scores. Some schools pay $10,000 per point while others offer up to $40,000. At full price, you might be paying 20 times more than a classmate. The key takeaway: the 75th percentile grant should be your floor, not your ceiling.

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31:09 – Scholarship Reconsiderations

The guys explain why you shouldn’t expect schools to negotiate openly. Many schools pretend to have fixed offers or use pre-law advisors to dissuade students from pushing back. Protect your leverage—don’t visit schools, don’t volunteer information. “Exclusive” opportunities are often just marketing ploys to increase tuition revenue.

50:43 – Last Call for Uncle Sam’s Wallet

Recently proposed policy changes threaten to disrupt the current tuition landscape of law schools. Limitations on student visas, loan amounts, and repayment options all have the capacity to change the way law schools play the scholarship game.

1:07:05 – RC Comprehension

Ricky scores nearly perfectly on Logical Reasoning, but underperforms at Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan suggest that Ricky aim for two perfect passages and guess on the rest. With time and practice, two will lead to three, but perfection on two gives a strong base and builds confidence.

1:10:07 – Grammerly

Ben and Nathan discuss the value of Grammarly. They suggest a smart workflow: use tools like Grammarly to generate suggestions, then double-check those suggestions with Google or other AIs. Cross-referencing recommendations can teach you good writing while improving your output.

1:13:00 – Personal Statement Gong Show

Ian sends in his submission for the Personal Statement Gong Show, the show where Ben and Nathan read personal statements and hit the gong when something goes wrong. The standing record to beat is ten lines, held by Greta.

1:18:31 - Word of the Week - Compatible

Which one of the following statements about cells is most compatible with the views of late nineteenth-century biochemists as those views are described in the passage?

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Michael Freedman joins Nathan on Thinking LSAT to share his story as a trial lawyer in some of the nation’s most high-profile criminal cases. Along the way, he shares candid advice for law students about finding their path, building experience, and starting a firm. Michael emphasizes the importance of treating law school like a job, embracing trial work, and nurturing every professional relationship.

4:00 – UC Hastings

Michael recalls feeling bored during his 1L year but loving 2L because he finally began interacting with real lawyers. Nathan encourages students to approach law school the way Michael did. Michael offers two practical tips for success: treat law school like a 9-to-5 job and intentionally build life balance outside of school.

27:10 – Federal Clerkship and Government Position

Despite participating in OCI, Michael didn’t land a Big Law job. Instead, he worked during law school for a trial lawyer focused on white-collar defense, which helped him confirm his passion for criminal trial work. The client relationship aspect deeply appealed to him, influencing his decision to clerk after graduation. He landed a prestigious clerkship on the Ninth Circuit. While many of his peers moved into Big Law after clerking, Michael opted for a government role to gain more courtroom experience. When he eventually reached the typical endpoint for federal positions, he chose to start his firm rather than join another existing one.

27:23 – Starting the Freedman Firm

To build his practice, Michael accepted every case, no matter the size, emphasizing that no case was too small in those early days. He believes that founding a firm requires an entrepreneurial mindset—one must enjoy thinking about how to acquire clients, how to handle hiring, and how to manage payroll. He later brought on another partner to help handle larger, more demanding cases.

33:41 – Big Profile Cases

Michael’s work eventually led to invitations to co-counsel on major white-collar criminal cases, including representing Bill Cosby, working on R. Kelly’s trial, and participating in Harvey Weinstein’s appeal. Much of this work was in collaboration with Jennifer Bonjean, a highly respected trial attorney based in Chicago. These opportunities didn’t happen by accident. They stemmed from years of deliberate effort in building strong professional relationships. Michael treats his referral sources like clients themselves, ensuring they’re proud to be associated with his work and satisfied with the results he delivers.

40:41 – Should Our Students Do What You Do?

Michael poses a fundamental question to students: Do you know what kind of lawyer you want to be? He encourages students to take advantage of every opportunity to gain hands-on experience. Law firms require a diverse range of personalities and backgrounds to serve their clients effectively. He urges students to attend court and introduce themselves to lawyers, not just to network, but to genuinely learn. A sincere interest in the work can lead to meaningful opportunities.

Ben and Nathan investigate income-debt ratios for average law students. Their findings paint a sobering picture for the average law school graduate. In many cases, students are paying champagne prices for beer salaries. Paying full price at even top schools can disrupt personal financial stability for a decade or longer.

Then, they review the newly released 2025/2026 LSAT schedule, flag another price increase, and take on two flawed pieces of LSAT advice in a double round of Pearls vs. Turds. The guys help one listener struggling with timed sections and a reapplicant focusing on the wrong priorities in their résumé. JoJo the PoPo takes their shot at the Personal Statement Gong Show, and “normative” is the word of the week.

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0:30 – Champagne Prices. Beer Salaries.

Ben and Nathan highlight how poorly students understand the long-term impact of taking on massive student loans. The federal government considers the average law grad to be in financial hardship, and income-to-debt ratios back that up. Graduates from top schools like Yale typically spend about 10% of their gross monthly income on loan payments, while some graduates spend over 50%. To make matters worse, top students who secure scholarships and consequently have little to no debt often land the best jobs, while those borrowing median debt levels earn significantly less. Scoring high on the LSAT and attending law school for free remains the safest path.

Check your school's median debt and income levels at Lawhub.com

27:10 – 2025/2026 LSAT Schedule Released

The LSAT schedule for 2025/2026 shows no significant changes, but the official test cost increased again. Ben and Nathan encourage students not to waste money and wait until their practice test scores show they’re ready before signing up.

28:55 – Pearls vs. Turds Double Header

This episode’s Pearls vs. Turds features two submissions. First: “Avoid the obvious answer.” Verdict: turd. If the answer does what the question is asking, it’s correct. If it feels easy, it’s because the LSAT is genuinely easy. Second: “If the passage doesn’t include the word ‘should,’ avoid answer choices that do.” Verdict: also a turd. While it hints at something valid—normative conclusions need support—rigid rules like this replace real understanding with memorization and lead to errors.

37:20 – Not Improving on Timed Sections

Dexter reports that although his untimed drilling has improved, his timed section scores remain flat. Ben and Nathan recommend treating timed sections the same way as drilling. Rather than rushing to finish, focus on solving each problem completely and accurately.

42:15 – Law School Résumé

AP is applying again after improving their LSAT score and wants feedback on résumé content. Ben and Nathan advise that résumés and soft skills are secondary when the LSAT score isn’t competitive. Application materials like the résumé can stay largely the same, but they must be polished and error-free.

48:29 – Personal Statement Gong Show

JoJo the PoPo enters the ring as the latest Personal Statement Gong Show contestant. Ben and Nathan read their personal statement and hit the gong when something goes wrong. The standing record to beat is ten lines, held by Greta.

1:03:53 - Word of the Week - Normative

“Sciences, however, are by definition non-normative: they describe but they do not prescribe.”

Applying this late in the cycle shows desperation. And schools love to charge full price for desperation. There are two rules every applicant should follow. Apply early. Apply broadly. Neither of those things can happen at this point in the cycle. Instead, students should focus on getting the best LSAT score possible and apply at the beginning of the next cycle.

Ben and Nate discuss an article revealing how top universities fund tax-free faculty perks. They then move to law school strategy, urging applicants to prioritize career outcomes and apply broadly. They recommend retaking the LSAT to take advantage of score variance and stress the importance of mastering each argument. Finally, they caution against misleading AI advice, encourage persistence during tough study periods, and advise applying only when your LSAT score makes you competitive.

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0:30 – Tax Breaks for Professors - A Wall Street Journal op-ed by a UC Berkeley law professor highlights generous, tax-free perks that top universities offer faculty—housing, private K–12 tuition, and college tuition at other schools. These benefits boost professor compensation while keeping base salaries modest. Schools use tuition and student loan funds to cover these perks. The takeaway: your tuition may fund more than just education. The proposed solution is to end these tax exemptions.

22:30 – Should I Walk Away from a Full Ride? - Benjamin wants to know if it’s worth taking a full ride at a low-ranked school. Ben and Nathan ask, can a JD from that school get you the job in the practice area you want, in the location you want it, at the firm you want? Talk to alumni and firms to see if they are hiring from this school. Check ABA reports to learn about employment outcomes. Apply broadly, and if your scholarship is conditional, be ready to walk if it’s lost.

33:54 – Get to 175

Faith misses one or two questions per section, scoring near 175 in practice. Nate and Ben recommend using all her attempts to benefit from test-day variance. To achieve an official 175, Ben and Nate encourage Faith to stop trying to finish the section, slow down, and focus on understanding more of what they’re reading.

39:07 – Bad AI Advice - Beware of AI-generated content with false or misleading law school advice. One article even published verifiably false information about Stanford. Always verify what you read.

46:27 – Overcoming Roadblocks - Rachel spent 10 minutes stuck on a question. Nate and Ben see this as a positive—persistence shows strong reasoning ability. Reflect on what you learned from the process.

51:00 – Apply Now or Wait? - Nick is shooting to start law school in Fall 2025. Ben and Nate warn that is a recipe for failure. Applying next cycle is possible if your LSAT is high enough to get the offers you want.

1:01:43 – What to Do When You Don’t Know a Word - If you don’t know a word, try solving the question without looking it up. Ben suggests coming up with two meanings and using context to decide. Nathan suggests substituting “something” to test the sentence’s meaning.

1:18:54 - Word of the Week - Escrow - “We're updating our terminology to make things clearer, based upon valuable feedback from customers like you. In the coming days, we will be updating the term from “escrow” to “project funds” across the Upwork platform, while maintaining the same trusted functionality.”

Colleges use advanced data tracking to fine-tune scholarship offers based on what they think you’ll pay and to make you feel good about your price. Ben and Nathan explain how firms analyze digital behavior, like email click speed, to calculate offers. Wealthy students get merit aid, lower-income students get need-based aid, but both often pay the same price. The result is personalized pricing that favors schools.

Later, they cover Yale Law Dean Heather Gerken’s push to ditch rankings and focus on need-based aid. Ben suggests two fixes for law schools: eliminate student loans and scrap ABA requirements. The episode also covers the Perkins Coie ruling, another round of the Personal Statement Gong Show, and Tips from a Departing Demon.

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0:30 – Law Schools Know What You’ll Pay

Ben and Nathan cover a NYTimes article that reveals how schools set tuition prices and financial aid. Law schools work with data firms that track every digital move, including email clicks, to determine how much you’re willing to pay. They then personalize your financial aid offer accordingly. Out-of-state students are targeted with high sticker prices and bigger discounts, which still net higher profits for schools. Merit aid and need-based aid are distributed strategically so that students from different income levels often pay the same amount. This model lets law schools charge each student a different price, while making them all feel like they got a deal. Applying early signals price sensitivity and can help you get a better offer.

EAB Sales Presentation

32:07 – Abandon Rankings

Heather Gerken, the Dean of Yale Law School, calls for moving away from law school rankings. Despite talk of supporting need-based aid, schools still spend ten times more on merit-based scholarships. The Trump administration’s past proposal to cut loans for schools with high default rates could help stop these “scammerships.” Ben argues that two reforms are key: end federal student loans and overhaul ABA accreditation requirements. But without new incentives, the tragedy of the commons suggests schools will keep playing the rankings game.

57:28 – Big Law vs. Trump: Perkins Decision

In a follow-up to the discussion on Episode 505, Ben and Nathan break down a new court ruling that found Trump’s executive order, which attempted to penalize Perkins Coie, is unconstitutional.

59:43 – Personal Statement Gong Show

Gabriella steps into the spotlight as the latest contestant in the Personal Statement Gong Show. Ben and Nathan read her personal statement and hit the gong the moment something goes wrong. The standing record to beat is ten lines, held by Greta.

1:12:10 – Tips from a Departing Demon

Sam encourages students to follow the Demon’s core advice: slow down, understand what you are reading, and solve each question.

1:16:15 – Index Calculations

The Demon Scholarship Calculator is an estimate built on data from previous years. The proven way to go to law school for free is to improve your LSAT and keep your GPA high.

1:18:54 - Word of the Week - Blithely

“The government blithely describes the statements set out in Section 1 of EO 14230 as 'not seriously contested' and 'matters of public record.’ This description is inaccurate.”

Rachel Cohen, a former Skadden associate, joins Ben and Nate to discuss how Big Law is responding to recent executive orders aimed at major firms. They examine how the orders challenge the legal system, why firms are staying quiet, and the resistance staged by associates across the industry.

Later, Ben and Nate highlight Crushing 1L, the Demon’s new program for first-year law students. They also host another round of the Personal Statement Gong Show. And What’s the Deal With St. Thomas University?

0:29 – Big Law Showdown with Rachel Cohen - Rachel Cohen, a Harvard Law graduate and former Skadden associate, made headlines after resigning to protest Big Law’s weak response to Trump-era executive orders. She criticized top firms for caving to political pressure in an open letter and interview. Above the Law’s “Big Law Spine Index” shows that of the top fifty firms, the largest firms, only five have taken a stand to resist the executive orders from the Trump administration. One reason, she noted, is that many firms keep minimal cash reserves, leaving them financially exposed to government backlash.

39:53 – Crushing 1L: Get Ahead Before Day One - LSAT Demon’s Crushing 1L program is now available to all paying subscribers. It introduces essential first-year concepts and vocabulary to prepare students to hit the ground running. Given the potential impact that first-semester grades have on career outcomes, it is more important than ever for students to start law school on the right foot.

47:43 – Tips from a Departing Demon: Don’t Go - Scoring high on the LSAT doesn’t mean law school is the right path. A departing student explains why law school wasn’t the right choice for her. The Demon team isn’t here to sell you on law school. They want you to succeed, whether that’s in law or elsewhere.

52:36 – Personal Statement Gong Show - Greta is the next contestant in the Personal Statement Gong Show. This is the segment where Ben and Nate will read your personal statement, but as soon as they spot a problem, they hit the gong and stop reading. The current record is five lines, held by Jeremiah.

1:14:52 – What’s the Deal With… St. Thomas University? - This unranked law school offers a “summer conditional program” that promises admission if you finish in the top 15%, but you’ll be paying full price for that gamble. Employment outcomes are dismal—around 30% of graduates are underemployed—and most scholarships are conditional and frequently reduced. With a median salary of $50,000 and potential debt over $300,000, the hosts’ verdict is clear: don’t go to St. Thomas University’s law school.

1:18:54 - Word of the Week - Rigmarole - “Kashmir: From Legal Rigmarole to a Solution.”

Logical Reasoning predictions rely on the basics: accept the premises, assume the conclusion is false, and don’t read the question first. Ben and Nathan explain how these steps make the section easier and why reading the question first often hurts performance.

They also discuss how law schools use seat deposit deadlines to encourage students to accept weaker scholarship offers. The guys warn about the return of student loan collections and emphasize avoiding debt without a solid repayment plan. They introduce “Crushing 1L,” a new tool to help students start law school strong. Then another episode of Personal Statement Gong Show.

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0:28 – Deposit Deadline Drama - Law schools' admissions offices are sales departments. Changing offers right before deposit deadlines puts pressure on applicants to accept worse deals. It’s all part of the game schools play to leverage scholarship offers to manipulate their GPA and LSAT medians.

10:35 – Student Loans in Collections - Collections are now in effect for defaulted student loans, including wage garnishments. With less than 40% of borrowers current on their payments, it’s a stark reminder not to take on massive debt for law school unless you have a solid plan to pay it off. Always check employment outcomes. Most importantly, get an LSAT score that lets you go to law school for free.

23:34 – Prepping for 1L Success - The Demon has a new feature, “Crushing 1L,” to help you get a grasp of the language and the big picture of law school before you even start. Hadari’s story—getting into Stanford Law without debt after 2.5 years of prep—shows it’s worth taking your time to do law school the right way. Even if you finish law school at the bottom of your class, graduating debt-free puts you on firm financial footing.

37:19 – Making Better Predictions - Never read the question first. You get better at making predictions in Logical Reasoning by practicing the right way. Accept the premises, expect the conclusion not to be properly proven, and be skeptical of every argument.

52:16 – Remaining Time in Reading Comprehension - If you’re low on time in Reading Comprehension in a practice section, go ahead and start the next passage. Then finish the passage and the questions after time runs out. The goal of practice is long-term reading improvement, not squeezing out a few extra points. On test day, though, you might try reading a bit and grabbing a main point question, or simply use the remaining time to rest and reset.

56:17 – Personal Statement Gong Show - Bryan is the next contestant in the Personal Statement Gong Show. This is the segment where Ben and Nate will read your personal statement, but as soon as they spot a problem, they ring the gong and stop reading. The current record is five lines, held by Jeremiah.

1:12:18 – Don’t Want to Be an Attorney - A demon student aspires to become a clinical ethicist after a decade of nursing experience. Ben and Nate caution that if a JD is necessary, fine, but do not pay for law school. A nursing license already carries a ton of career value, so make sure you know exactly what you’re getting into before you commit to more school and debt.

1:18:54 - Word of the Week - Verisimilitude - “After reading this chain, I recognized that this conversation possessed a high degree of verisimilitude. The texts, in their word choice and arguments, sounded as if they were written by the people who purportedly sent them, or by a particularly adept AI text generator.”

The secret to scoring a 170 on the LSAT? Don’t finish the section—just slow down and focus on accuracy. Ben and Nathan share an excerpt from their new book, The LSAT Is Easy, that breaks down what it takes to reach score milestones. They also unpack common admissions gimmicks, share tips from a departing demon, and host another round of the Personal Statement Gong Show.

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0:37 - The LSAT Is Easy

Ben and Nathan explain why the LSAT isn’t as difficult as it seems. Rushing through questions leads to repeated mistakes, not progress. They encourage slowing down, focusing on accuracy, and carefully solving each question. The episode also introduces their new, budget-friendly book. Improving your score starts with doing questions right, not doing more of them.

19:33 – Marketing gimmicks

Law schools use tactics like seat deposit deadlines and “priority waitlists” to pressure applicants into accepting full-price offers. Ben and Nathan explain how these strategies work, why they don’t reflect actual capacity, and how they help schools find eager, full-paying students. Their advice? Ignore the pressure. Focus on scholarships and long-term results.

40:50 – Why didn’t Ben enjoy his job in the justice department?

Ben recalls his time at the DOJ, where much of his work involved revising boilerplate from other lawyers. They also discuss clerkships—what they entail, how they differ, and why federal ones are more significant. For more on clerkships, check out Thinking LSAT Episode 418, Demystifying Federal Clerkships.

43:53 – You Don’t Need to Explain Every Wrong Answer.

Some students waste time trying to explain every wrong answer. Ben and Nathan suggest it’s more useful to understand the logic behind the correct ones and focus your review on the questions you missed. The point isn’t to memorize everything—it’s to build real understanding.

48:23 – Personal Statement Gong Show

Angel shares a personal statement for critique. Ben and Nathan emphasize that it needs to focus squarely on the applicant. Highlighting anything other than your skills wastes space that should be used to show why you will succeed in law school and the legal profession.

1:09:16 - Tips from a Departing Demon

Blake shares two pieces of advice: every word on the LSAT counts, and practice doesn’t make perfect—just better. Ben and Nathan agree with another student who reminds listeners not to take the test until they’re truly ready.

1:14:16 - Word of the Week - Concomitant

"Neurosurgery seemed to present the most challenging and direct confrontation with meaning, identity, and death. Concomitant with the enormous responsibilities they shouldered, neurosurgeons were also masters of many fields: Neurosurgery, ICU Medicine, neurology, radiology."