Bamboozled by the "CES Letter"
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Narrated by:
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Derrick Duncan
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By:
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Michael R. Ash
About this listen
In April 2013, Jeremy T. Runnells published a PDF booklet entitled "Letter to a CES Director". This booklet, which is now typically referred to as the "CES Letter", catalogs Runnells’ concerns and reasons why he left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons). Runnells has worked hard to make his booklet available to people everywhere (and in several languages) and has, unfortunately, been the agent for leading at least a few other believers out of Mormonism.
Sadly, most of those who have been bamboozled by the “CES Letter“ are Latter-Day Saints who were blindsided by scholarly sounding interpretations of challenging data. In my opinion, however, the “CES Letter” creates a caricature of Mormonism. The arguments are fundamentally flawed and do not accurately represent either Mormonism or the only logical interpretations of the data.
Unfortunately, the reason the "CES Letter" has enjoyed any success is that most Latter-Day Saints have never been exposed to some of the more complex matters in early Mormon history. On average, the typical Latter-Day Saint has never needed to think outside of the box on Mormon-related philosophical, historical, or scholarly issues.
Bamboozled by the "CES Letter" explains why these controversial issues need not kill a testimony. Interpretation matters. Many laymembers, as well as educated Mormon scholars, are fully aware of every topic discussed in the "CES Letter" but continue strong in their faith because they recognize that there are logical interpretations that can be integrated with their belief in Mormonism. There are answers to the concerns raised by the "CES Letter", and those answers can be supported by current scholarship as well as harmonized with the acceptance of Mormon truth claims.
©2015 Michael R. Ash (P)2022 The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, Inc.Listeners also enjoyed...
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The Septuagint, the name given to the translation of the Hebrew scriptures between the third century BC and the second century AD, played a central role in the Bible's history. Many of the Hebrew scriptures were still evolving when they were translated into Greek, and these Greek translations, along with several new Greek writings, became Holy Scripture in the early Church. Yet gradually the Septuagint lost its place at the heart of Western Christianity.
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A popular & much-needed intro to the Septuagint
- By Jacobus on 06-14-14
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The Bible's Cutting Room Floor
- The Holy Scriptures Missing from Your Bible
- By: Joel M. Hoffman
- Narrated by: Jonathan Todd Ross
- Length: 10 hrs and 33 mins
- Unabridged
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In The Bible’s Cutting Room Floor, acclaimed author and translator Dr. Joel M. Hoffman gives us the stories and other texts that didn’t make it into the Bible even though they offer penetrating insight into the Bible and its teachings. The Book of Genesis tells us about Adam and Eve’s time in the Garden of Eden, but not their saga after they get kicked out or the lessons they have for us about good and evil.
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Good content, rather poor presentation by narrator
- By J_T on 12-28-16
By: Joel M. Hoffman
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The World's Greatest Book
- The Story of How the Bible Came to Be
- By: Lawrence H. Schiffman Ph.D., Jerry Pattengale Ph.D.
- Narrated by: George W. Sarris
- Length: 7 hrs
- Unabridged
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From the earliest oral traditions to ink on parchment and ultimately the printing press, this is the story behind the best-selling book of all time. Original texts were captured and passed down from generation to generation by elders and leaders, many inked by hand in extreme conditions. Christians and Jews canonized the Christian, Catholic, and Hebrew Bibles over a period of thousands of years. Devoted people dedicated their lives throughout time to put this unique book into the hands of people worldwide.
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Couple of errors.
- By Simandl on 12-13-17
By: Lawrence H. Schiffman Ph.D., and others
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Jesus on Trial
- A Lawyer Affirms the Truth of the Gospel
- By: David Limbaugh
- Narrated by: Walter Dixon
- Length: 12 hrs and 16 mins
- Unabridged
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In Jesus on Trial, New York Times bestselling author David Limbaugh applies his lifetime of legal experience to a unique new undertaking: making a case for the gospels as hard evidence of the life and work of Jesus Christ. Limbaugh, a practicing attorney and former professor of law, approaches the canonical gospels with the same level of scrutiny he would apply to any legal document and asks all the necessary questions about the story of Jesus....
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What a disappointment
- By JB on 10-07-14
By: David Limbaugh
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The Apocryphal Gospels
- The History of the New Testament Apocrypha Not Included in the Bible
- By: Charles River Editors, Gustavo Vazquez-Lozano
- Narrated by: Mark Norman
- Length: 2 hrs and 5 mins
- Unabridged
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Between 50 and 90 CE, the various writings that comprise the New Testament were written, including the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles of Paul, and other letters to more general communities of the early Church. But what is recognized as the 26 books of the New Testament today, in literally hundreds of English translations, actually took several more centuries to be determined as "canonical" by the Church.
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Very Interesting information.
- By KP on 12-11-16
By: Charles River Editors, and others
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Not the Impossible Faith
- By: Richard Carrier
- Narrated by: Richard Carrier
- Length: 12 hrs and 49 mins
- Unabridged
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Written with occasional humor and an easy style, and thoroughly referenced, with many entertaining "gotcha!" moments, Not the Impossible Faith is a must-listen for anyone interested in the origins of Christianity. Richard Carrier, PhD, is an expert in the history of the ancient world and a critic of Christian attempts to distort history in defense of their faith.
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Bloody awful audiobook...
- By Amazon Customer on 10-23-13
By: Richard Carrier
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Letters from a Skeptic
- A Son Wrestles With His Father's Questions About Christianity
- By: Dr. Gregory A. Boyd
- Narrated by: Greg Boyd
- Length: 5 hrs and 45 mins
- Unabridged
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Greg Boyd longed for his father to know Christ. But as a former atheist turned believer, Greg understood Ed Boyd's reservations. So he offered a unique invitation: His father could write Greg with any questions on Christianity, and he would in turn deliver a thoughtful response. What began as an intimate correspondence between father and son soon captivated seekers everywhere.
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I thought the father had a lot better arguments
- By Julia Davis Coffey on 01-11-10
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The Problem of God
- By: Mark Clark
- Narrated by: Mark Clark
- Length: 7 hrs and 36 mins
- Unabridged
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The Problem of God is written by a skeptic who became a Christian and then a pastor, all while exploring answers to the most difficult questions raised against Christianity. Mark grew up in an atheistic home, and after his father's death, began a skeptical search for truth through exploring science, philosophy, and history, asking the big questions of life, and eventually finding answers in Christianity. In a disarming, winsome, and persuasive way, The Problem of God responds to the top 10 questions people raise against God, and Christianity.
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Very Convincing and Quite Good
- By Daniel on 12-07-19
By: Mark Clark
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Decoding Nicea
- Constantine Changed Christianity and Christianity Changed the World
- By: Paul Pavao
- Narrated by: Alan Sisto
- Length: 5 hrs and 32 mins
- Unabridged
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The Council of Nicea was not clerics in a dark and ornate hall. It was brawls in churchyards; it was emperors and governors fighting to save the empire; it was political intrigue as the governments of church and state blended into a volatile stew. It was the way a fringe group of peace-loving communal worshipers of a crucified Palestinian prophet conquered the Roman Empire.
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Who mixes fact with fiction?
- By 3allvalve on 12-28-17
By: Paul Pavao
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History Is Wrong
- By: Erich von Däniken
- Narrated by: John Allen Nelson
- Length: 6 hrs and 11 mins
- Unabridged
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Erich von Däniken again shows his flair for revealing truths that his contemporaries have missed. After closely analyzing hundreds of ancient and apparently unrelated texts, he is now ready to proclaim that human history is nothing like the world religions claim---and he has the proof! In History Is Wrong, von Däniken takes a closer look at the fascinating Voynich manuscript, which has defied all attempts at decription since its discovery, and makes some intriguing revelations about the equally incredible book of Enoch.
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Voynich Manuscript to nowhere
- By Mario on 01-05-12
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The Dead Sea Scrolls: A Biography
- Lives of the Great Religious Books
- By: John J. Collins
- Narrated by: Mark Moseley
- Length: 5 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
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Since they were first discovered in the caves at Qumran, in 1947, the Dead Sea Scrolls have aroused more fascination - and more controversy - than perhaps any other archaeological find. They appear to have been hidden in the Judean desert by the Essenes, a Jewish sect that existed around the time of Jesus, and they continue to inspire veneration and conspiracy theories to this day. John Collins tells the story of the bitter conflicts that have swirled around the scrolls since their startling discovery, and sheds light on their true significance for Jewish and Christian history.
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"Great Biography"
- By Marilyn Lame' on 12-04-14
By: John J. Collins
What listeners say about Bamboozled by the "CES Letter"
Average customer ratingsReviews - Please select the tabs below to change the source of reviews.
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- Amazon Customer
- 05-01-24
any easy read
it was nice to listen to, the guy has some jokes sprinkled in. plus the points made were concise and easy to follow
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- Amazon Customer
- 07-15-22
CES letter conquered
This is a great writing that directly responds to each point in the ominous “ces letter”
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1 person found this helpful
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- Tiffany Macey
- 06-11-23
Helpful
Helpful and fair counterpoints to the contents of the CES letter and some common criticism of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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- Porter L
- 08-29-22
Accomplishes what it set out to do.
I wouldn't say Michael A is a great story teller, or the most eloquent. I would say he knows how to be efficient and get the job done. This is intended to be a quick overview of the nonsense of the CES Letter, providing good explanations of the fallacies used and the factual information left out of the letter. He also discusses proper methods that should be used to analyze data. He covers the misleading material and shines a light of context on it (the time, the people, human errors, etc). It's a short listen/read and I knocked it out in about a day. If you're either curious or having a struggle of faith regarding the CES Letter, you'll find yourself completing this booklet thinking "wow, I was so silly to fall for the CES tactics in the first place." And for that, I commend the author. It's very little time, very convenient, and there are no downsides really.
If you find yourself wanting more in depth analysis and/or rebuttal, I suggest doing a web search for "Sarah Allen's (dice1899) response to the CES Letter" for incredible additional works on this.
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- bbbzeliard
- 07-21-22
Cogent and Informative
I highly enjoyed this book. Less acerbic than Hugh Nibley's "The Myth Makers", Michael Ash nevertheless flays the CES Letter wide open to show to all that for every claim the Letter makes, there are a number of inconvenient truths left out by its author through either ignorance or willful misdirection. "Bamboozled by the CES Letter" is the latest funerary rite for the Letter's potency, yet it maintains the decorum and demeanor our modern world has come to expect from a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Concurrently, it disabuses the reader of any notions they may be harboring that perhaps the Letter really does present accurate, valid and uncontested claims against the teachings and history of the Church and Joseph Smith. This is the peer review the Letter has desperately needed and will hopefully serve to fortify those who have been, are now, or will be affected negatively by it. I think Derrick Duncan does a great job of narration, but could have been a bit more engaging in tonality and cadence. I fully realize this is completely subjective.
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- aura
- 07-16-22
A common sense answer to the CES questions
Mike Ash answers questions with kind yet common sense. I have thoroughly enjoyed this book.
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- John Ark
- 07-26-22
A solid answer
Michael Ash gives solid answers to faithful members regarding the CES letter. I have read a great deal of defense of the LDS faith by scholars and laymen, which Ash has mastered and brings to bear in answer. Ash also had new insights and facts that I was not aware of. Ash's tone is appropriately personal and humorous in presenting what has gone before and in crafting his own replies.
The CES letter mostly repeats old arguments and questions that anti-Mormons claim have not been answered, though solid answers have been given to them. Most of the new material from the letter is inaccurate and misleading in trivial ways. Like much anti-Mormon literature, any careful reading of some of the criticisms reveal that they are not just arguments against the LDS faith, but against Christianity, in general or against religion, in general. Ash appropriately answers the critiques.
I have only two minor quibbles. The first quibble is likely only relevant to those like me who have done a great deal of prior reading and thinking about the issues. It takes about 20 minutes in the audiobook for Ash to dispense with a preliminary explanation of how arguments work and how critiques and answers work. For instance, Ash rightly points out that a one-sentence critique may require several pages of answer, something that one sees in many fields. I would have preferred a sooner "hook" into the CES critiques and answers, with the material in the 20 minutes scattered throughout. Ash is a good writer, so he may have tried this and found that the 20 minutes worked better.
The second minor quibble is that the tone is humorous, but the reader's tone is more serious. At first I wondered if humor was intended until it finally became apparent.
I recommend "Bamboozled..." Ash does a solid job. Those who need answers to the CES letter will find them here. Those who do not necessarily need answers, may, like me, enjoy the fun of hearing the the questions and answers.
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- Jubal
- 06-26-23
Immediately Regretted
I don’t fault the author for his beliefs. However, I was extremely disappointed in the amount of mental gymnastics he attempted in explaining away legitimate concerns about the church and its history. He often made arguments that failed to address the crux of the issue and/or disregarded significant amounts of relevant information. This is NOT a scholarly writing.
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- Todd Pingel
- 08-13-23
Weak and disappointing arguments
This work addresses issues raised in the CES Letter from an non-academic Mormon position. It is a biased, apologist view of the problematic foundations of Mormonism and attempts to package this view as academic, which it clearly is not. It is a retelling of excuses that require the reader to accept, by faith, major flaws in the Mormon religion. The author fails to consider the most logical and reasonable explanations to the issues raised in the CES Letter and instead weaves far fetched excuses and assumptions that require the reader to ignore critical thinking and logic. This book is short on substance and wholly unhelpful for those looking for answers to important questions regarding the validity of the Mormon belief system.
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- AmyOakeson
- 07-12-22
Not recommended. Terrible answers.
Save your money and don't buy this book! I believe 79% of the listeners of this book, would think the writer is bamboozlong the readers in believing that most people believe in Magic, not science. And believing in magic, is the only way you can believe in the Latter-day Saint or "Mormon" faith. That for some reason, it is okay that Joseph Smith could just make stuff up. Joseph learned he could manipulate people with his treasure digs, (he would get paid to find buried treasure and but he never found anything for his clients, see court cases). I am sadden when people justify and protect a pedophile, and conman like Joesph Smith. These answers to the CES letter are terrible. Once again, I do not recommend this books.
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4 people found this helpful