In this exclusive interview, former U.S. Senator Kyrsten Sinema joins Divergent States to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine in American healthcare. From Ibogaine and PTSD to policy reform and bipartisan collaboration, Sinema opens up about her firsthand exposure to the healing potential of psychedelics through veterans' experiences - and why the time to act is now.

We explore how veterans are pushing the policy frontier, what FDA and CMS approval would mean, and why even critics of the current political landscape may want to support this shift.

Whether you're skeptical of government or hopeful for reform, this conversation tackles the friction between institutions and innovation—and why psychedelics might be the most disruptive medicine in a generation.

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🔑 Key Topics & Takeaways:

• Sinema’s introduction to psychedelics through Ibogaine and a veteran’s recovery story
• The bipartisan support behind psychedelic research and its surprising origins
• Why psychedelic medicine challenges the pharmaceutical business model
• The risks of corporate monopolization and how small biotech firms can resist buyouts
• The path to FDA and CMS approval for Ibogaine, MDMA, and psilocybin
• Why the Trump administration’s staffing of “disruptors” may accelerate reform
• Access, affordability, and insurance coverage: what’s next
• Her vision for psychedelic medicine by 2030

⏱️ Chapters for YouTube or Show Notes:

00:00 – Intro & Why Sinema Sparks Debate
01:20 – Why Interview Politicians on Psychedelics
04:00 – Sinema’s Personal Awakening to Psychedelics
06:30 – Ibogaine, Trauma, and Veterans
08:45 – Colleagues' Reactions to Psychedelic Policy
10:20 – Veterans in Congress Leading the Charge
12:00 – Risks of Big Pharma Infiltration
13:45 – Why Psychedelics Aren’t Big Moneymakers
15:30 – Making Treatments Accessible for All
17:40 – Decriminalization vs. Federal Policy
19:00 – Policy Regrets and Strategic Pragmatism
21:10 – Why She’s Still in the Fight Post-Senate
22:00 – Supporting Psychedelics Despite Politics
23:00 – Rebuilding Trust in Institutions
25:00 – Where the Movement Could Be in 5 Years
26:30 – Sinema’s Panels at Psychedelic Science 2025
28:00 – Collaborating with Heroic Hearts & VETS
30:00 – Outro: Reflections and Community Shout-Outs

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This week, we sit down with Kevin Cranford, Communications Officer at MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), to talk about the upcoming Psychedelic Science 2025 conference — what’s new, what’s different, and why it’s shaping up to be more than just another gathering. From navigating hype vs. science to MAPS’ comms strategy, Kevin shares how the org is threading the needle between community storytelling, rigorous research, and avoiding another "Wellness Industrial Complex" meltdown.

We dig into questions around affordability, integration, cross-aisle politics, harm reduction, and even Oprah's looming presence. It's a candid, funny, and thoughtful look at where the movement is headed — and how not to lose the soul of psychedelics in the process.

Also in this episode: Rainbow Gatherings, EDM afterparties, psychedelic pickup lines, and how to make ketamine uncool.

Key Takeaways

• MAPS is prioritizing integration over size for PS25, aiming for intentional connections rather than sheer numbers.
• The future of psychedelics lies in dialogue, not dogma — MAPS welcomes skeptics, clinicians, artists, and policy-makers under the same roof.
• Storytelling beats data alone — personal narratives help bring complex psychedelic science to wider audiences.
• MAPS consciously avoids hype by deferring to the science and resisting exaggerated claims.
• Access and affordability are still big questions — MAPS is actively seeking insurance and donation pathways to reduce sticker shock for marginalized communities.
• There’s tension in the movement between spiritual influencers and clinical research — and MAPS isn’t shying away from those debates.
• The goal is to make psychedelics boring. That’s how you mainstream a revolution.

Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction and Conference Overview
03:14 Psychedelic Science 2025: A Cultural Gathering
06:05 Target Audience and Conference Experience
09:01 Balancing Science and Experience
11:56 Community Dynamics and Open Dialogue
14:56 Storytelling in Psychedelic Advocacy
18:04 Addressing Criticism and Ensuring Access
20:55 Future of Psychedelic Research and Regulation
27:25 Curating Online Communities for Quality Engagement
29:03 Learning from Past Mistakes in Psychedelic Movements
30:40 Bridging Political Divides in Psychedelic Advocacy
31:52 The Importance of Personal Stories in Psychedelic Healing
33:44 Exploring the Deep Space Experience at PS25
35:07 Innovative Ideas for Future Psychedelic Conferences
36:53 The Impact of Celebrity Endorsements on Psychedelic Culture
39:52 Making Psychedelics Boring for Future Generations
40:29 Reflections on the Psychedelic Community and Its Growth

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In this powerful new episode of Divergent States, your hosts 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Tom Feegel—CEO and Co-Founder of Beond, a pioneering Ibogaine clinic based in Mexico, to discuss the unfiltered realities of healing, addiction recovery, and the evolving landscape of psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Tom brings two decades of sobriety, a past life in global brand marketing, and deep experience navigating both the light and shadow of the psychedelic resurgence. This isn’t a conversation full of buzzwords: it’s a grounded, honest exploration of what actually helps people come back from the brink.

Together, we unpack what Ibogaine is, why it has a reputation for treating opioid addiction where other modalities fall short, and how the Beond model emphasizes safety, preparation, and integration over hype. Tom also shares stories from the frontlines: clients who arrive on death’s doorstep and walk away with not just sobriety, but a new story for themselves.

This episode dives into some hard but necessary questions:

• Why do traditional Western rehab models have such a low success rate?
• What does it mean to center human dignity in a treatment model?
• How can clinics scale without becoming exploitative?
• What role do communities like Reddit and independent media play in this movement?

Whether you're a harm reduction advocate, a skeptic, or just curious about where psychedelics are headed, this conversation challenges assumptions and offers a rare window into the operational and ethical complexities of real-world healing work.

Big thanks to our guest Tom Feegel for showing up with honesty, experience, and insight—and for the vital work he’s doing at Beond Ibogaine Clinic.
https://beondibogaine.com/
Appreciation to all our listeners, supporters, and community members who keep Divergent States growing with every episode.

Shoutout to our co-host Bryan for always bringing grounded, thoughtful perspective - and to you, for being part of this movement.

🎶 Music Credit

Original music by Dyl👽Alien - alien frequencies for earthbound minds.
Check out more of Dyl👽Alien’s work wherever interdimensional audio is transmitted.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Podcast
03:10 Tom Fiegel's Personal Journey and the Founding of Beyond Ibogaine
18:40 The Role of Community and Support in Healing
22:29 Challenging the Stigma of Asking for Help
24:04 The Importance of Self-Forgiveness and Growth
28:31 Redefining Healing and the Role of Medicine
28:58 Healing Through Vision: Moving Beyond the Past
32:13 The Role of Ibogaine: A Natural Healing Tool
36:05 The Journey to Treatment: What to Expect
45:26 The Ibogaine Experience: A Transformative Process

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FiresideProject.org

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