In this exclusive interview, former U.S. Senator Kyrsten Sinema joins Divergent States to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine in American healthcare. From Ibogaine and PTSD to policy reform and bipartisan collaboration, Sinema opens up about her firsthand exposure to the healing potential of psychedelics through veterans' experiences - and why the time to act is now.

We explore how veterans are pushing the policy frontier, what FDA and CMS approval would mean, and why even critics of the current political landscape may want to support this shift.

Whether you're skeptical of government or hopeful for reform, this conversation tackles the friction between institutions and innovation—and why psychedelics might be the most disruptive medicine in a generation.

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and join the conversation

🔑 Key Topics & Takeaways:

• Sinema’s introduction to psychedelics through Ibogaine and a veteran’s recovery story
• The bipartisan support behind psychedelic research and its surprising origins
• Why psychedelic medicine challenges the pharmaceutical business model
• The risks of corporate monopolization and how small biotech firms can resist buyouts
• The path to FDA and CMS approval for Ibogaine, MDMA, and psilocybin
• Why the Trump administration’s staffing of “disruptors” may accelerate reform
• Access, affordability, and insurance coverage: what’s next
• Her vision for psychedelic medicine by 2030

⏱️ Chapters for YouTube or Show Notes:

00:00 – Intro & Why Sinema Sparks Debate
01:20 – Why Interview Politicians on Psychedelics
04:00 – Sinema’s Personal Awakening to Psychedelics
06:30 – Ibogaine, Trauma, and Veterans
08:45 – Colleagues' Reactions to Psychedelic Policy
10:20 – Veterans in Congress Leading the Charge
12:00 – Risks of Big Pharma Infiltration
13:45 – Why Psychedelics Aren’t Big Moneymakers
15:30 – Making Treatments Accessible for All
17:40 – Decriminalization vs. Federal Policy
19:00 – Policy Regrets and Strategic Pragmatism
21:10 – Why She’s Still in the Fight Post-Senate
22:00 – Supporting Psychedelics Despite Politics
23:00 – Rebuilding Trust in Institutions
25:00 – Where the Movement Could Be in 5 Years
26:30 – Sinema’s Panels at Psychedelic Science 2025
28:00 – Collaborating with Heroic Hearts & VETS
30:00 – Outro: Reflections and Community Shout-Outs

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This week, we sit down with Kevin Cranford, Communications Officer at MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), to talk about the upcoming Psychedelic Science 2025 conference — what’s new, what’s different, and why it’s shaping up to be more than just another gathering. From navigating hype vs. science to MAPS’ comms strategy, Kevin shares how the org is threading the needle between community storytelling, rigorous research, and avoiding another "Wellness Industrial Complex" meltdown.

We dig into questions around affordability, integration, cross-aisle politics, harm reduction, and even Oprah's looming presence. It's a candid, funny, and thoughtful look at where the movement is headed — and how not to lose the soul of psychedelics in the process.

Also in this episode: Rainbow Gatherings, EDM afterparties, psychedelic pickup lines, and how to make ketamine uncool.

Key Takeaways

• MAPS is prioritizing integration over size for PS25, aiming for intentional connections rather than sheer numbers.
• The future of psychedelics lies in dialogue, not dogma — MAPS welcomes skeptics, clinicians, artists, and policy-makers under the same roof.
• Storytelling beats data alone — personal narratives help bring complex psychedelic science to wider audiences.
• MAPS consciously avoids hype by deferring to the science and resisting exaggerated claims.
• Access and affordability are still big questions — MAPS is actively seeking insurance and donation pathways to reduce sticker shock for marginalized communities.
• There’s tension in the movement between spiritual influencers and clinical research — and MAPS isn’t shying away from those debates.
• The goal is to make psychedelics boring. That’s how you mainstream a revolution.

Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction and Conference Overview
03:14 Psychedelic Science 2025: A Cultural Gathering
06:05 Target Audience and Conference Experience
09:01 Balancing Science and Experience
11:56 Community Dynamics and Open Dialogue
14:56 Storytelling in Psychedelic Advocacy
18:04 Addressing Criticism and Ensuring Access
20:55 Future of Psychedelic Research and Regulation
27:25 Curating Online Communities for Quality Engagement
29:03 Learning from Past Mistakes in Psychedelic Movements
30:40 Bridging Political Divides in Psychedelic Advocacy
31:52 The Importance of Personal Stories in Psychedelic Healing
33:44 Exploring the Deep Space Experience at PS25
35:07 Innovative Ideas for Future Psychedelic Conferences
36:53 The Impact of Celebrity Endorsements on Psychedelic Culture
39:52 Making Psychedelics Boring for Future Generations
40:29 Reflections on the Psychedelic Community and Its Growth

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In this powerful new episode of Divergent States, your hosts 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Tom Feegel—CEO and Co-Founder of Beond, a pioneering Ibogaine clinic based in Mexico, to discuss the unfiltered realities of healing, addiction recovery, and the evolving landscape of psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Tom brings two decades of sobriety, a past life in global brand marketing, and deep experience navigating both the light and shadow of the psychedelic resurgence. This isn’t a conversation full of buzzwords: it’s a grounded, honest exploration of what actually helps people come back from the brink.

Together, we unpack what Ibogaine is, why it has a reputation for treating opioid addiction where other modalities fall short, and how the Beond model emphasizes safety, preparation, and integration over hype. Tom also shares stories from the frontlines: clients who arrive on death’s doorstep and walk away with not just sobriety, but a new story for themselves.

This episode dives into some hard but necessary questions:

• Why do traditional Western rehab models have such a low success rate?
• What does it mean to center human dignity in a treatment model?
• How can clinics scale without becoming exploitative?
• What role do communities like Reddit and independent media play in this movement?

Whether you're a harm reduction advocate, a skeptic, or just curious about where psychedelics are headed, this conversation challenges assumptions and offers a rare window into the operational and ethical complexities of real-world healing work.

Big thanks to our guest Tom Feegel for showing up with honesty, experience, and insight—and for the vital work he’s doing at Beond Ibogaine Clinic.
https://beondibogaine.com/
Appreciation to all our listeners, supporters, and community members who keep Divergent States growing with every episode.

Shoutout to our co-host Bryan for always bringing grounded, thoughtful perspective - and to you, for being part of this movement.

🎶 Music Credit

Original music by Dyl👽Alien - alien frequencies for earthbound minds.
Check out more of Dyl👽Alien’s work wherever interdimensional audio is transmitted.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Podcast
03:10 Tom Fiegel's Personal Journey and the Founding of Beyond Ibogaine
18:40 The Role of Community and Support in Healing
22:29 Challenging the Stigma of Asking for Help
24:04 The Importance of Self-Forgiveness and Growth
28:31 Redefining Healing and the Role of Medicine
28:58 Healing Through Vision: Moving Beyond the Past
32:13 The Role of Ibogaine: A Natural Healing Tool
36:05 The Journey to Treatment: What to Expect
45:26 The Ibogaine Experience: A Transformative Process

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What does it mean to be a responsible psychonaut?

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down again with Valerie Beltran, licensed therapist, harm reduction expert, and educator with the Zendo Project, to unpack 7 core principles for navigating psychedelic states with intention, safety, and compassion.

We break down everything from testing your stash to dismantling your ego, and talk about how these powerful tools can help us grow: not just as individuals, but as a culture.

🔑 Topics we cover include:

• Harm reduction, substance testing, and staying safe
• What makes a psychonaut different from a recreational user
• Ego dissolution vs. ego inflation in the psychedelic space
• The beauty of Zendo-style peer support
• Psychedelic diversity, inclusion, and ethical use
• The soul quadrant: psychedelics as a call to community action
• Integration as an everyday spiritual practice
• Why set, setting, and intention still matter more than hype

Valerie brings grounded wisdom and therapeutic insight, while 3L1T3 and Bryan keep it real with stories, skepticism, and a few laughs about LSD philosophy, festival weirdness, and Rainbow drum circles.

🧠 This is a great starting point for new explorers and a reminder to seasoned trippers that we all need to check our egos at the door sometimes.

🎧 Music by Flintwick
🪬 Support the show + get the bonus after-show with Valerie at patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Email: divergentstates@gmail.com

#Psychedelics #Psychonaut #Integration #ZendoProject #DivergentStates #PsychedelicTherapy #SetAndSetting #HarmReduction #MAPS #EgoDeath

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:18 - Valerie Beltran’s Background
00:01:37 - Updates from the Zendo Project
00:02:24 - Psychedelic Legalization News
00:03:35 - Psychedelic Science 25 Conference
00:05:19 - The Seven Psychonaut Principles
00:05:50 - Principle 1: Harm Reduction & Personal Safety
00:08:42 - Preparation (Set & Setting)
00:14:21 - Principle 2: Do No Harm to Others
00:16:07 - Principle 3: Community & Connection
00:21:36 - Principle 4: Diversity & Inclusion
00:25:59 - Principle 5: Ego Awareness
00:31:18 - Principle 6: Integration & Reflection
00:38:18 - Princliple 7: Advocacy & Social Justice
00:44:47 - Closing Remarks

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In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Alli Schaper, CEO of Supermush and co-founder of the Microdosing Collective, to explore the evolving world of functional and psychedelic mushrooms. Alli shares her journey into microdosing advocacy, the challenges of navigating the gray market for psychedelics, and the urgent push for policy reform to ensure safe, legal access.

We dive into the science behind microdosing, its profound benefits for mental health, creativity, and even athletic performance, and discuss why current regulations often overlook this powerful tool. Alli opens up about how psychedelics helped her family process grief and why storytelling is key to destigmatizing these substances. The conversation also highlights the risks of unregulated products (like gas station "shrooms"), the importance of community-driven advocacy, and the potential for cultural momentum to shape smarter policies.

With psychedelic mushrooms gaining mainstream attention, from wellness brands to underground markets, we ask: Are we "legalizing the whole bottle of wine before the sip"? Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of microdosing, the role of functional fungi in daily health, and how everyday individuals can help drive this movement forward.

Music by DylAlien.

Takeaways

• Mushrooms can have a profound impact on physical and mental health.
• Microdosing can help maintain mental health and prevent burnout.
• Psychedelics can be valuable tools for processing grief.
• There is a cultural gap in understanding and accepting death.
• Microdosing is often misunderstood and misrepresented in popular culture.
• Functional mushrooms offer various health benefits beyond nutrition.
• Community and intentional gatherings are essential for wellness.
• Advocacy for microdosing is crucial for policy changes.
• The definition of a microdose is often misinterpreted.
• The Microdosing Collective aims to represent and support microdosers. There is a need for a legal safe pathway for microdosing.
• Education and research are crucial for microdosing advocacy.
• Community involvement enhances the impact of policy reform.
• The psychedelic gray market poses risks and opportunities.

https://www.microdosingcollective.org/

https://supermush.com

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Psychedelic Science 25
02:53 Ali Schaper's Journey into Microdosing
06:08 Balancing Entrepreneurship and Advocacy
09:00 Personal Experiences with Grief and Psychedelics
12:01 The Intersection of Wellness and Mortality
15:05 Microdosing Collective and Its Goals
17:48 Functional Mushrooms vs. Psychedelic Microdosing
21:01 Benefits of Functional Mushrooms
23:57 Debunking Myths about Microdosing
28:45 Legal Pathways for Microdosing
30:12 Challenges in Microdosing Policy
32:05 Education and Community Engagement
34:52 The Role of Everyday Psychonauts
36:54 Understanding the Psychedelic Gray Market
39:47 Policy Adjustments for Safe Microdosing
41:25 Community-Driven Ethos in Regulation
43:01 Cultural Momentum and Storytelling
45:41 The Renaissance of Psychedelics
47:42 Collaborations and Community Initiatives
49:01 Supporting the Movement

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In this deeply personal and eye-opening episode, we sit down with filmmaker JR Sawyers, the mind behind the indie psychedelic drama A Trip Elsewhere. What begins as a conversation about a film turns into a powerful exploration of transformation, healing, and consciousness.

JR opens up about the psychedelic retreat that changed his life, the emotional weight of isolation during the pandemic, and how he turned those experiences into cinematic storytelling. We dive into the emotional architecture of A Trip Elsewhere, the science and stigma of psychedelics, and how visuals can speak to the soul when words fall short.

From ego death to sacred geometry, from heartbreak to healing—this episode is as introspective and surreal as the film itself. Whether you’re curious about psychedelics, passionate about indie film, or just looking for a conversation with real heart, this one is not to be missed.

🎬 A Trip Elsewhere is streaming now on Amazon Prime, Tubi, Apple TV, and the Roku Channel.

Takeaways

• J.R. Sawyers is an independent filmmaker inspired by introspective films.
• His film explores the therapeutic effects of psychedelics.
• Sawyers experienced a transformative retreat that influenced his filmmaking.
• The film's visuals aim to capture the essence of psychedelic experiences.
• Character development reflects different emotional struggles and transformations.
• The future of psychedelics in therapy looks promising with increasing acceptance.
• Sawyers drew inspiration from various books and films to shape his narrative. Actors appreciated the character journeys in the film.
• Filmmaking was a way to relive the retreat experience.
• Setting and guidance are crucial for psychedelic experiences.
• Sawyers is working on a horror film about a possessed psychiatrist.
• The film addresses the silent pandemic of mental health issues.
• Psychedelics can help build empathy in a disconnected world.
• Letting go is essential during psychedelic experiences.
• He has never had a bad trip, highlighting the need for guidance.

Again, thank you to everyone who is supporting on Patreon, all of the music entries (DylAlien, Flintwich, and Future Boogz), everyone who has helped with scheduling and booking, and last but not least, r/psychonaut.

00:00 – Intro & Guest Welcome
02:00 – Inspirations & Origins
04:00 – First Psychedelic Retreat Experience
07:00 – Translating Psychedelics to Film
10:30 – The Visual & Emotional Grammar of A Trip Elsewhere
14:00 – Character Arcs & Psychological Themes
18:00 – Real-Life Moments That Made the Film
21:00 – Therapeutic Psychedelics: Real Science, Real Stories
25:00 – Set, Setting, and Integration
30:00 – Viewer Reactions, Misconceptions & Mother’s Transformation
34:00 – The Future of Psychedelics in Film and Medicine
37:00 – Behind the Scenes: Budget, Casting & Visual Storytelling
41:00 – New Projects & Final Reflections
44:00 – Advice for Psychedelic Newcomers
47:00 – Outro & Where to Watch A Trip Elsewhere

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In this powerful episode of Divergent States, we’re joined by Valerie Beltran and Chelsea Rose-Pires of the Zendo Project- an organization redefining harm reduction and compassionate care at festivals, events, and beyond.

We explore how the Zendo Project began as a MAPS initiative and evolved into its own nonprofit dedicated to supporting people through difficult psychedelic experiences and emotional crises, not with judgment or clinical detachment, but with radical empathy and peer support.

From creating safe spaces at Burning Man to launching training programs for crisis responders, Valerie and Chelsea offer insight into how the Zendo Project is transforming both event culture and the broader conversation around mental health, community care, and psychedelics.

Whether you’ve had a challenging trip, want to support others through non-ordinary states, or are just curious about what real-world harm reduction looks like, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

🧘‍♀️ Learn how just being present can change lives.
🧠 Discover why “sitting, not guiding” is a revolutionary principle.
💬 And find out how you can get involved, support their mission, or even join them in the field.

✨ “You don’t have to be altered to walk into the Zendo. You just have to be human.” – Valerie Beltran

🔗 Learn more or get involved: zendoproject.org
💚 Donate. Volunteer. Sit with someone. It matters.

Forgot to mention on the episode, but big thanks to Future Boogz for letting us feature their track on this episode! Ach for the art, Brad for the help, and all of the Patreon Supporters!

All content in Ask Me Anything sessions are for educational purposes only. Zendo Project does not provide any legal, medical or mental health advice. Consult with a lawyer, doctor, or mental health therapist before making any significant decisions for your own situation. Any references to third party websites or service providers are made without any warranties, express or implied. All participants should conduct their own due diligence on any third party websites or professionals before engaging in any conduct. Zendo Project does not encourage or facilitate any illegal conduct.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Zendo Project and Festival Collaboration
04:06 Understanding the Zendo Project's Mission and History
10:27 The Role of Outreach and Community Support
14:46 Experiencing a Zendo Session: What to Expect
17:56 Collaboration with Medical Services and Event Producers
21:11 Challenges in Harm Reduction Awareness
23:57 Exciting New Partnerships and Initiatives
27:39 Success Stories and Impact of the Zendo Project
32:10 The Impact of Zendo Project
34:06 Getting Involved: Training and Community
36:13 Education and Outreach in Psychedelic Spaces
39:06 Navigating Adverse Experiences
42:45 Challenges in Providing Services
44:01 Future Vision and Growth of Zendo Project
48:10 Inclusivity and Accessibility in Support Services
52:08 Integration After Experiences
54:57 How to Support Zendo Project

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In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Dylalien: psychedelic DJ, producer, schoolteacher, and longtime organizer of Goa Gil’s legendary all-night, open-air ritual dance parties. You’ve heard his music on this podcast, but in this conversation, we go deep on what it means to create and participate in psychedelic music culture at its most raw, weird, and transformative.

Together, we explore:

• The life and legacy of Goa Gil, trance music’s spiritual godfather
• The influence of Hindu mysticism and Shiva archetypes in psychedelic culture
• The cosmic giggle: what happens when you dance all night and see the joke behind the universe
• DJing while tripping, playing to the sunrise, and accessing “wizard vision”
• How sound, sync, and group dance create stacked synchronicities
• Why trance is a tool, music is a medicine, and exhaustion is a drug
• The evolution of the underground, from vinyl and anonymity to phones and algorithms
• Being a high school teacher with a secret psychedelic life (“Did you just say that out loud?”)
• Pranksters, dosed swimming pools, and the chaos magic of the California scene
• How a late-in-life awakening led him to start releasing music, after decades in the shadows

We also talk about how psychedelic states can permanently shift your view of reality—how even sobriety feels different once you've danced with the universe. Dylalien reflects on how psychedelics pushed him to go vegan, redefined his ideas about spirituality, and reminded him again and again: “I don’t know anything. And that’s OK.”

This episode blends stories, insight, laughter, and nostalgia with the kind of wisdom that only comes from living decades in a counterculture groove. Whether you’re a musician, a tripper, a Deadhead, or just someone who’s felt the beat pull them into something bigger—you’ll feel at home here.

🎧 Music by Dylalien
🔗 Learn more about Goa Gil’s legacy and psychedelic trance culture
🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Want to be on the podcast? Hit us up on Reddit, Instagram, or TikTok.

#Psytrance #GoaGil #PsychedelicMusic #CosmicGiggle #Psychedelics #Deadhead #DivergentStates #Pranksters #TerrenceMcKenna #DJCulture #TranceDance #PsychedelicExperience

Big thank you Bryan, Dylalien, Flintwick, Ach, and Brad of Integration Communications!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to DylAlien and Goa Gil
02:46 The Impact of Goa Gil on Electronic Music
05:58 The Cosmic Giggle and Psychedelic Experiences
08:58 The Evolution of Music and Technology
11:58 The Role of Music in Trance and Connection
15:45 The Changing Landscape of Music Festivals
18:03 Teaching and Navigating Youth Culture
21:05 The Joy of Musical Collaboration
24:05 The Therapeutic Power of Music and Psychedelics
27:59 Exploring the Power of Music and Drumming
34:19 The Journey into Music and Creativity
37:24 Psychedelics and Reality: A New Perspective
49:57 Microdosing: A Therapeutic Alternative
52:55 Building a Community Through Psychedelics

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