For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/ To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk

Learn more about the great work David Robinson is doing at Coaching 4 Marketplace by going to: https://coachdaverobinson.com/

What if you dedicated decades of your life to ministry only to discover the role you've been striving to fulfill doesn't align with your true calling?

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt sits down with David Robinson, a seasoned pastor who faced the painful realization that his gifting was not what people had expected of him.

Together, they tackle the disappointment of unfulfilled expectations in ministry, the challenges pastors face when their role doesn’t fit their calling, and the key to finding clarity and purpose in leadership.

How can churches avoid burnout, embrace better hiring processes, and ensure that their pastors are operating within their true gifts?

This episode dives deep into what it takes to build effective ministry teams and how to lead a church while avoiding common pitfalls.

1. Clarity Prevents Confrontation: Many conflicts arise from unclear expectations in leadership roles; upfront clarity in job descriptions and performance agreements is essential.
2. Gifting vs. Role Expectations: Churches often expect pastors to fulfill multiple roles, but each leader needs to operate within their God-given spiritual gift.
3. The Importance of Building a Team: An apostolic leader must focus on building a balanced team of other gifts - shepherds, teachers, evangelists, and prophets - instead of trying to do it all themselves.
4. Relational Equity Matters: The strength of a church’s leadership is often determined by the relationships built outside formal meetings - trust grows from investing in personal connections.
5. Burnout Doesn't Come From Chasing Jesus: Burnout in ministry occurs when leaders chase after people or tasks outside of their gifts, not from pursuing their true calling.

1. "Confrontation is the flip side of clarity. If you're not clear upfront, confrontation is inevitable."
2. "God told me, 'I never called you to be a pastor.' It wasn't the shepherding gift He gave me, but another that was needed in the places He sent me."
3. "Burnout doesn’t come from chasing Jesus; it comes from chasing people and tasks that don't align with your gift."

• [00:00] Introduction – Matt and Marilee introduce David Robinson and the theme of unfulfilled expectations in ministry.
• [00:41] Unfulfilled Expectations in Leadership – David explains how lack of clarity in roles leads to disappointment and confrontation.
• [02:00] Five Key Areas of Clarity in Hiring – Spiritual gifting, temperament, clear job description, and performance agreements are necessary for successful leadership.
• [04:32] Frustration in Ministry – David shares his 40-year experience in ministry and the internal struggle of being called a "pastor" without having a shepherding gift.
• [07:50] The Role of Apostolic Leadership – A discussion on the difference between an apostolic gifting and the expectations placed on pastors.
• [12:44] Elders’ Role in Supporting Leadership – How elders hold pastors accountable and build trust through relational equity.
• [15:12] Tension Between Ministry and Corporate Approaches – Addressing the disconnect between ministry-focused staff and marketplace-minded elders.
• [18:08] Managing Transitions and Letting Go – How to approach pastoral transitions with grace and maintain emotional maturity during difficult conversations.
• [19:49] Vision vs. Management in Ministry – The importance of maintaining a compelling vision to prevent ministry from devolving into mere management.
• [21:59] Addressing Burnout in Ministry – How burnout happens when leaders pursue tasks outside their gifting and how to create balance.
• [26:27] Life After Ministry – David discusses the possibility of life after vocational ministry and how to embrace a new calling outside the church.

Learn more about our work at Pastoral Transitions by going to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/

Learn more about the great work David Robinson is doing at Coaching 4 Marketplace by going to: https://coachdaverobinson.com/

Learn more about the great work Kathey Batey is doing at Divorce Support Anonymous by going to: https://divorcesupportanonymous.com/

Episode Summary

Imagine walking into your church with a heart heavy from a broken marriage, unsure how your faith community will respond. The weight of shame, guilt, and fear can feel unbearable.

This episode of Life After Ministry dives into the often unspoken struggles of divorce, especially for those in ministry.

Divorce doesn't just impact a marriage, it shakes personal faith, family, and even one’s calling.

Matt and Marilee Davis sit down with Kathy Batey, a divorce support expert, to explore the stigma of divorce in Christian circles, the unique pain pastors face when marriages fall apart, and how the church can better respond with love and grace instead of judgment.

This episode sheds light on the real experiences of people struggling with the collapse of their marriage and how to heal and hope again.

1. The Church’s Response to Divorce: Instead of casting stones, churches need to approach divorce with compassion, understanding that healing requires support, not judgment.
2. The Unique Pressure on Pastors: Pastors face additional layers of shame and complexity when dealing with divorce because of their public role in the faith community.
3. God Hates Violence, Not Just Divorce: The often-quoted scripture about God hating divorce is often misapplied, as the heart of the issue is God's disdain for violence and broken relationships, not merely the legal separation.
4. Hope After Divorce: Even after the pain of divorce, there is life, restoration, and potential for new purpose if individuals are intentional about healing.
5. The Importance of Support Systems: Support groups, whether faith-based or community-oriented, are critical for healing and processing the trauma of divorce.

1. "Divorce causes damage, but God cares more about the individual than the institution of marriage."
2. "You have a broken soul in front of you. How you treat this broken soul matters."
3. "God has not divorced you. He still has a beautiful plan for your life."

• [00:00] Introduction – Matt and Marilee introduce the topic of divorce in ministry.
• [01:05] Kathy Batey’s Journey – Kathy shares her personal experience with divorce and how it led her to support others.
• [02:56] The Stigma of Divorce in the Church – Exploring the shame and fear Christians feel around divorce.
• [05:01] Pastors and Divorce – The additional challenges pastors face when their marriages break down.
• [06:36] Misinterpretations of Malachi 2:16 – Kathy explains how the Bible's verse about God hating divorce is often misused.
• [10:28] Helping Pastors Struggling in Their Marriage – Kathy offers advice for ministry leaders facing marital challenges.
• [14:50] Church Leaders’ Role in Supporting Divorcing Pastors – Practical steps church boards can take to support pastors going through divorce.
• [18:35] Redemption After Divorce – A story of how one pastor was more impactful post-divorce.
• [20:37] Life After Divorce – The importance of healing and finding hope after a marriage ends.
• [25:50] Final Thoughts – Kathy encourages individuals going through divorce, reminding them of God's plan for their lives.

Learn more about our work at Pastoral Transitions by going to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/

Learn more about the great work Kathey Batey is doing at Divorce Support Anonymous by going to: https://divorcesupportanonymous.com/

For more information about the work we do at Pastoral Transitions, visit us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/ To book a confidential call with our team, go to: https://pastoraltransitions.com/talk

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Chris Adams, Executive Director of Flourishing in Ministry, takes us deep into the heart of one of the biggest challenges pastors face today—burnout. With pastors feeling pulled in every direction, post-pandemic pressures, political polarization, and toxic church dynamics, how can they stay healthy and truly flourish? Chris shares his own background as a third-generation pastor and how he was inspired to care for those serving in ministry, especially after witnessing his grandfather's ministry burnout. Together, we unpack the emotional weight pastors carry and how Chris's work is helping pastors find real, tangible ways to prevent burnout, restore balance, and thrive, even when their ministries are struggling.

1. "You can be so right, you're wrong. There’s a lot of that happening today."

2. "Burnout sneaks up on pastors. By the time they realize it, the damage is done."

3. "Pastors need to play. A little bit of fun, even 20-30 minutes a week, can make a huge difference."

• Burnout sneaks up: Most pastors are unaware they’re burning out until it reaches a critical level. Early warning signs must be recognized.

• Self-regulation is essential: Pastors are constantly exposed to toxic behavior and emotional stress. They need skills to process and release those burdens.

• Playtime is necessary: Even a small amount of leisure time can rejuvenate mental and physical health and contribute to long-term well-being.

• Daily rhythms matter: Pastors should practice simple daily wellness routines, like a 5-minute pause or a 15-minute walk, to maintain resilience.

• Flourishing despite hardship: A pastor’s ministry doesn’t need to be thriving for them to personally flourish; redefining success can lead to true fulfillment.

00:00 - Introduction and Chris's Ministry Background 02:30 - The "Clergy-Killing" Churches and Why Chris Stayed in Ministry 04:50 - The Current Health of Clergy in America 07:15 - Navigating Polarization and Flourishing Amidst Conflict 10:00 - The Daily Well-being of Pastors 12:30 - Importance of Contemplative Practices and Play 16:30 - Flourishing in Ministry Even When Ministry Isn’t Flourishing 19:40 - The Research Behind Burnout in Ministry 22:30 - Indicators of When to Consider Stepping Away from Ministry 26:20 - How Flourishing in Ministry is Helping Pastors