Welcome to another episode of the Sleeping Barber Podcast!

Join Marc and Vassilis as they dive into the world of marketing effectiveness with special guest James Hurman.

James, the founder of Previously Unavailable and the Masters of Advertising Effectiveness program, shares his deep insights into the startup ecosystem, the importance of balancing customer acquisition costs (CAC) with brand awareness, and the concept of future demand. This episode is packed with valuable knowledge on how to build sustainable marketing strategies that drive long-term success.

Enjoy the show!

Our Guest:

James Hurman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/

• Founder Previously Unavailable - Innovation Studio
• Founder & Programme Director of the Masters of Advertising Effectiveness course with WARC
• Co-founder of Tracksuit - a SaaS brand health tracking system
• Co-author with Peter Field on the Cannes Lions / WARC publication called Creative Effectiveness Ladder
• Author of a new book for startups called Future Demand and The Case for Creativity

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Timestamps:

0:00 - Episode Introduction

3:28 –the trouble with CAC & the startup playbook

6:39 – why future demand (brand building) is important for startups

10:15 – is demand generation possible

15:04 – Why CAC gets worse without brand awareness

17:30 – Split budgets between brand and performance marketing

19:00 – James’ journey into effectiveness

24:14 – What is effectiveness?

26:35 – The Creative Effectiveness ladder

32:35 – Do ads wear out or wear in?

37:10 – The customer need behind Tracksuit’s brand health tracking SaaS

41:10 – Lessons for early-stage startups

44:53 – The power of industry expertise inside a startup

47:58 – Building Effectiveness knowledge inside companies

51:15 – Much of what marketers are taught is wrong

53:30 – Marketing evidence needs to wear in

54:15 – how to learn more about James

55:09 - Post Pod with V and Marc

Background Research & Literature:

James on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/

Tracksuit https://www.gotracksuit.com/us

Previously Unavailable https://www.previously.co/

Creative Effectiveness Ladder https://www.lionscreativity.com/creative-effectiveness-ladder

The Principle of Future Demand https://www.previously.co/projects/the-principle-of-future-demand