April Worthington is a teacher, mother of five, minister, and author of The Debriefing Workbook: Hope and Healing after Spiritual Abuse. In this conversation, April shares her experience involving a retreat led by Lundy Bancroft, author of Why Does He Do That?, a book many of us have clung to in our darkest moments. April’s story isn’t just one of personal harm, it’s a call to action.

As a survivor of both spiritual abuse and high-conflict divorce, April recounts how her initial fan-girl admiration of Bancroft shifted into something far more troubling after an encounter that left her reeling. She shares what unfolded during and after that retreat, the red flags she noticed, and the courage it took to speak out despite the risks.

I'm holding space for April as she brings forward not only her own experience, but those of others who have come to her with eerily similar stories. Her insight challenges us to re-examine what it means to trust "experts," and the danger in handing over our vulnerability to uncredentialed individuals cloaked in guru status.

Here’s what else we get into, in this episode:

• The red flags that emerged during and after the retreat (6:03)
• The emotional fallout of being targeted by someone seen as a “healing” authority (26:24)
• How April is building a support network for other survivors (28:35)
• Why separating the author from their work is no longer an option (36:22)

Learn more about April Worthington: April Worthington is a teacher, mother of five, minister, and author of The Debriefing Workbook: Hope and Healing after Spiritual Abuse.

Resources & Links:

Thank you to today’s podcast sponsor: Wild Pastures
Unbreakable – the Divorce Recovery Retreat, Sedona, AZ in April 2025
Submit your questions here for possible inclusion in future Q&A podcast episodes
Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate
Phoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment Collective
April on Facebook
April’s YouTube video: A Warning to Women- RUN GIRL! Lundy Bancroft is not your friend!
A Cry for Justice: Lundy Bancroft is a Predator

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Episode link:
https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-319-when-the-healer-harms-speaking-out-against-lundy-bancroft/

Dr. Kerry McAvoy returns to talk about what it means to heal from narcissistic abuse. Not just from an intellectual standpoint, but healing your nervous system, in your relationships, and in your relationship to yourself. Healing is not quick, it’s not tidy, and it’s definitely not linear.

Dr. Kerry and I talk about how women have been conditioned to serve, to disappear, to manage the emotions of everyone around us just to maintain the illusion of peace. We explore what emotional fusion looks like, what healthy relationships look like, and what it means to reconnect with Self throughout your healing journey.

Here’s what else we get into, in this episode:

• How and why so many of us learned to believe our needs are “too much” (3:59)
• Discerning between, “Are you being loved and respected or just useful?” (18:03)
• What healthy love actually looks like (spoiler alert it includes messiness and mistakes) (28:04)
• Healing doesn’t have a finish line and why that’s okay (29:35)

Learn more about Kerry McAvoy, Ph.D: Dr. Kerry, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Resources & Links:

Thank you to today’s podcast sponsor: Our Family Wizard
Unbreakable – the Divorce Recovery Retreat, Sedona, AZ in April 2025
Submit your questions here for possible inclusion in future Q&A podcast episodes
Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate
Phoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment Collective

Dr. Kerry’s website
Dr. Kerry on Facebook
Dr. Kerry on Instagram
Dr. Kerry on YouTube
Dr. Kerry on TikTok
Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships, David Schnarch PhD|

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Finding a partner after divorce can feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. This week’s guest, Jennie Young, suggests a bold alternative - burn the haystack. Jennie is the creator of Burned Haystack Dating Method, a method grounded in applied rhetoric and feminist praxis, designed to push back against the toxic norms built into many modern dating platforms.

In this episode, Jennie shares practical, no-nonsense strategies for using dating apps more intentionally, treating them as tools (not lifelines), turning off notifications, and yes, burning the haystack. We also explore the common rhetorical patterns many men use on apps and how to recognize and respond to them when they show up.

Tune in for an eye-opening conversation that puts you back in control of your dating life, no algorithm required.

Here’s what else we get into, in this episode:

• How Burned Haystack Dating Method came to be and the story behind its name (5:22)
• The 10 essential rules that make up the Burned Haystack Dating Method (13:06)
• What critical discourse analysis actually is and how it can help you navigate dating apps with confidence (37:10)
• The rhetorical red flags to look out for, like “Test and apologize,” “Are you my mother?” and “Where were you on January 6th?” (38:58)

Learn more about Jennie Young: Jennie Young is the creator of Burned Haystack Dating Method, a dating method grounded in applied rhetoric and feminist praxis. It is designed to combat many of the challenges of dating in a market that is too frequently mediated by misogynistic and patriarchal structures. She holds a Ph.D. in rhetoric and discourse studies from Case Western Reserve University and a satire writing certificate from Second City Chicago. Her work has been published in McSweeney’s, Ms. Magazine, HuffPost, and others and covered by major media outlets such as The New York Times, Newsweek, RollingStone, and others.

Resources & Links:

Thank you to this episode's sponsor: Wild Pastures

Unbreakable – the Divorce Recovery Retreat, Sedona, AZ in April 2025

Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate

Phoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment Collective

Jennie’s website

Jennie’s Facebook Group

Jennie on Instagram

Jennie on Bluesky

Jennie on LinkedIn

Episode 309: Online Dating After Divorce with Alyssa Dineen

DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Episode Link:
https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-317-burned-haystack-dating-method-with-jennie-young/