• Unintended Consequences: Understanding 2nd & 3rd Order Effects | Ep. 50 | The Science of Leadership
    Jul 22 2025

    In this insightful segment from The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins sits down with General Pete Chiarelli, former Chief of Staff of the Army, to unpack the critical concept of second and third-order effects in decision-making.

    General Chiarelli explains that every action has ripple effects, often overlooked when leaders are pressured to solve immediate problems.

    🔸Anticipating Downstream Impacts: He shares a powerful example from his time commanding in Iraq, where extending troop deployments (a seemingly straightforward decision) had significant, often devastating, second and third-order effects on soldiers' families and personal lives back home.

    🔸Proactive Mitigation: True leadership involves anticipating these downstream impacts and proactively working to mitigate them.

    🔸Systemic Flaws in Medical Research: General Chiarelli argues that a major flaw in systems like medical research is the failure to consider these broader effects. He critiques the current research ecosystem, which often prioritizes individual publications and hoards data, hindering collaborative "team science" and slowing breakthrough discoveries, especially for complex issues like brain injuries. This contributes to a system that takes 16 years for scientific breakthroughs to become generally accepted in medicine.

    Learn why considering second and third-order effects isn't "getting into the weeds" but is fundamental to good leadership, fostering learning organizations, and ultimately, showing genuine care for those impacted by decisions.

    Also, I am excited to announce the release of my new book, "The Four Stars of Leadership," a culmination of over three years of dedicated work, and I'm confident it will be an immensely interesting and helpful guide on your journey to becoming a better leader. Don't miss out on this essential resource—order your copy today at https://a.co/d/hoLqz1g and share your thoughts with me!

    To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

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    28 mins
  • Mentorship's Invaluable Role in Leadership feat. Dr. Debbie Heiser | Ep. 49 | The Science of Leadership
    Jul 15 2025

    In this episode of The Science of Leadership, Tom Collins is joined by Dr. Debbie Heiser, an applied developmental psychologist, founder of The Mentor Project, and author of The Mentorship Edge. They explore the science and power of mentorship, delving into its core components and why it's vital for leadership development and legacy building.

    Dr. Heiser defines mentorship through five key principles, stemming from the developmental milestone of generativity—the innate desire to give back in midlife. These principles include:

    • Generative Match: The mentor must genuinely desire to give, and the mentee must be receptive to receiving what's offered.
    • Intrinsic Motivation: Mentorship is driven by internal rewards, not external compensation. If compensation is involved, it's coaching or advising, not true mentorship.
    • Meaningful Connection: A genuine liking and mutual investment in each other's success is essential.
    • Trust: Both parties must feel safe sharing vulnerabilities without fear of exploitation or negative repercussions.
    • Clear Goals: Mentorship is focused on specific, evolving goals that guide the relationship

    Dr. Heiser emphasizes that mentorship allows individuals to tap into the "wisdom of others" and broaden their paths. She critiques the "gamification" of mentorship in corporate settings, where external incentives can undermine the intrinsic motivation that defines true mentorship. She differentiates mentorship from advising or coaching, noting that while one can wear many hats, the core generative drive makes mentorship unique.

    A fascinating concept explored is "bread crumb legacy" and the "legacy tree". Dr. Heiser shares the inspiring story of Nobel Prize winner Bob Lefkowitz, who mapped his "legacy tree" of mentors and mentees, discovering his impact far beyond his immediate circle. This highlights how even small actions can have a significant, lasting impact.

    The episode concludes with actionable advice: "look to your left and look to your right". Recognize that everyone is a potential mentor or mentee, and approach these interactions with awareness, openness, and curiosity.

    To learn more about Dr. Debbie Heiser's work, visit MentorProject.org and https://deborahheiser.com/ and check out her book, The Mentorship Edge.

    To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

    References

    Heiser, D. (2024). The Mentorship Edge: Creating Maximum Impact through Lateral and Hierarchical Mentoring. Wiley.

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    29 mins
  • Maintaining Composure When It Hits the Fan w/ Admiral Jim Loy | Ep. 48 | The Science of Leadership
    Jul 8 2025

    In this compelling episode of The Science of Leadership, Tom Collins sits down with Admiral Jim Loy, former Commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard and Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, to explore the profound impact of remaining calm and maintaining composure under pressure.

    Admiral Loy shares a pivotal, "big screen worthy" story from his early days as a young ensign during a treacherous North Atlantic storm in 1965. He recounts a moment where his Captain, Jack Forrester, calmly corrected a critical error without a word, teaching an invaluable lesson in leadership, responsibility, and the power of composure in crisis. This experience cemented Admiral Loy's lifelong philosophy: Preparation Equals Performance.

    The discussion delves into how extensive preparation, through practice and mental envisioning, builds both muscle memory and neural pathways that enable calm and effective performance in high-stakes situations. Admiral Loy further illustrates this by describing his time commanding a patrol boat during the Vietnam War, emphasizing the life-and-death responsibilities that underscored the importance of unwavering composure.

    Tom Collins highlights the scientific backing for remaining calm, noting that it:

    🔸Instills confidence and trust in those being led.

    🔸Enhances rational and wise decision-making.

    🔸Reduces team stress and anxiety, leading to better performance.

    🔸Helps maintain clarity and a long-term perspective.

    🔸Fosters a positive organizational culture.

    Admiral Loy shares how he implemented "PEP Awards" (Preparation Equals Performance) to recognize and reinforce this vital behavior throughout the Coast Guard. The episode concludes with a powerful message: leadership is a lifelong learning process , and cultivating a prepared mindset allows leaders to "slice through the fog" when confronted with challenges.

    To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

    References

    Bass, B. M., & Riggio, R. E. (2006). Transformational Leadership (2nd ed.). Psychology Press.

    Covey, S. R. (2004). The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change. Free Press.

    Goleman, D. (1998). Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ. Bantam Books.

    Goleman, D. (1998). "What Makes a Leader?" Harvard Business Review.

    Heifetz, R. A., & Linsky, M. (2002). Leadership on the Line: Staying Alive Through the Dangers of Leading. Harvard Business Review Press.

    Kahneman, D. (2011). Thinking, Fast and Slow. Farrar, Straus and Giroux.

    Kouzes, J. M., & Posner, B. Z. (2017). The Leadership Challenge: How to Make Extraordinary Things Happen in Organizations. Jossey-Bass.

    Loy, J. M., & Phillips, D. T. (2013). The Architecture of Leadership: Preparation Equals Performance. Naval Institute Press.

    McKee, A., Boyatzis, R., & Johnston, F. (2008). Becoming a Resonant Leader: Develop Your Emotional Intelligence, Renew Your Relationships, Sustain Your Effectiveness. Harvard Business Press.

    Phillips, D. T., & Loy, J. M. (2003). Character in Action: The U.S. Coast Guard on Leadership. Naval Institute Press.

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    41 mins
  • Leading Through Persuasion: Why Coercion Fails w/ Dr. Jay Conger | Ep. 47 | The Science of Leadership
    Jul 1 2025
    In this episode of The Science of Leadership, Tom Collins is joined by Dr. Jay Conger, the Henry R. Kravis Chair of Leadership Studies at Claremont McKenna College and author of The Necessary Art of Persuasion. They redefine persuasion not as a manipulative sales tactic, but as a crucial leadership conversation designed to solve problems or seize opportunities. Dr. Conger outlines four essential steps for effective persuasion:
    • Credibility: This goes beyond expertise to include trustworthiness, personality, and conveying confidence without arrogance.
    • Framing for Common Ground: Leaders must connect their request or idea to what genuinely matters to the audience, whether it benefits individuals, the team, customers, or society.
    • Compelling Arguments: Presenting well-thought-out claims supported by strong evidence, such as data, examples, and personal testimony.
    • Connection: Creating an emotional link through a compelling narrative that addresses the audience's values and generates commitment to action.
    The conversation also highlights common pitfalls in persuasion, including a lack of preparation, relying on a "hard sell," unwillingness to compromise, over-reliance on arguments alone, and failing to see persuasion as a continuous process. Dr. Conger provides a fascinating real-world example of Monica Rufo's successful persuasion of Canadian fast-food franchisees. Ultimately, the episode emphasizes that persuasion is more powerful than directives because it fosters willing commitment and leverages the collective intelligence of the team. Dr. Conger stresses the importance of curiosity and listening to truly understand the audience. To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/ Key References: Cialdini, R. (2021). Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. Harper Business. Cialdini, R. (2024). Pre-suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade. Harper Business. Conger, J A. (1998). The necessary art of persuasion. Harvard Business Review, 76(3), 84–95. Conger, Jay A. (1999). Charismatic and transformational leadership in organizations: An insider’s perspective on these developing streams of research. The Leadership Quarterly, 10(2), 145–179. https://doi.org/10.1016/s1048-9843(99)00012-0 Freed, J. (2021). Breadcrumb Legacy: How Great Leaders Live a Life Worth Remembering. Routledge.
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    39 mins
  • Leading in High-Stakes Contexts: The Role of Competence | Ep. 46
    Jun 24 2025

    In this episode of @TheScienceofLeadership , Tom Collins is joined by Dr. Denny Lund, former Chief Medical Officer of Lucile Packard Children's Hospital Stanford and a seasoned pediatric surgeon. They delve into the crucial role of competence in leadership, especially in high-stakes environments where lives, careers, or missions are on the line.

    Dr. Lund defines competence as having diverse experience and knowledge pertinent to running an orgaization, emphasizing the necessity of being a lifelong learner. The conversation highlights a common challenge: individuals often rise to leadership positions based on technical competence but lack the necessary leadership competence. Dr. Lund asserts that leadership is a learned behavior, not an intrinsic quality, and requires intentional pursuit of training and learning. He shares his own journey of seeking formal and informal leadership education while balancing a demanding medical career and family life.

    Key takeaways from their discussion include:

    • The Importance of Reading: Dr. Lund recommends Leadership by James MacGregor Burns and Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman as foundational texts for aspiring leaders.
    • Understanding Your Impact: Effective leaders must understand the effect they have on others, a concept central to emotional intelligence.
    • Managing High Stakes: The discussion covers how competence is vital in various "high-stakes" situations, not just life-or-death scenarios, from critical team conversations to championship moments.
    • Leading by Empowerment: Dr. Lund emphasizes valuing team members and empowering rising leaders, allowing them to confidently perform their roles. He recounts a personal experience of stepping into a CEO role unexpectedly, relying on his learned leadership principles and trusted advisors.
    • Avoiding Overconfidence: Both Dr. Lund and Tom Collins warn against the dangers of overconfidence, especially among highly trained professionals, and stress the importance of seeking wise counsel and continually re-evaluating skills. This ties into the Dunning-Kruger effect, where low-competence individuals overestimate their abilities and high-competence individuals underestimate theirs.
    • Actionable Steps for Competence: The episode concludes with practical advice for leaders to improve competence, including reading, observing effective leaders, deliberate practice under pressure, developing decision-making frameworks (like the pre-mortem), and maintaining humility and self-awareness. The power of coaching and mentorship is also underscored.

    Key References:

    Burns, J. M. (1978). Leadership. Harper and Row.

    Collins, R. T., Purington, N. & Roth, S. J. (2022). Physician understanding of and beliefs about leadership. Journal of Healthcare Management, 67(2), 120–136.

    Connelly, M. S., Gilbert, J. A., Zaccaro, S. J., Threlfall, K. V., Marks, M. A. & Mumford, M. D. (2000). Exploring the relationship of leadership skills and knowledge to leader performance. The Leadership Quarterly, 11(1), 65–86. https://doi.org/10.1016/s1048-9843(99)00043-0

    Goleman, D. (1995). Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ. Bantam Books.

    Grant, A. (2021). Think again: The power of knowing what you don’t know. Viking.

    Kozminski, A. K., Baczyńska, A. K., Skoczeń, I. & Korzynski, P. (2022). Towards leadership effectiveness: the role of leadership individual competencies and constraints. Introduction of the Bounded Leadership Model. Leadership & Organization Development Journal, 43(4), 596–611. https://doi.org/10.1108/lodj-04-2020-0157

    Kruger, J. & Dunning, D. (1999). Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 77(6), 1121–1134. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.77.6.1121

    Wisittigars, B. & Siengthai, S. (2019). Crisis leadership competencies: the facility management sector in Thailand. Facilities, 37(13/14), 881–896. https://doi.org/10.1108/f-10-2017-0100

    To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

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    34 mins
  • Radical Candor: Cutting to the Chase Kindly w/ Dr. Kate Smith | Ep. 45 | The Science of Leadership
    Jun 17 2025

    In this episode of @TheScienceofLeadership , Tom Collins welcomes Dr. Kate Smith, Senior Associate Dean of Biology Education and Professor of Medical Science at Brown University, to delve into the powerful concept of Radical Candor.

    Dr. Smith explains that Radical Candor, as defined by Kim Scott, is about "how to say what you mean without being mean". It requires both caring personally and challenging directly. The conversation explores the pitfalls of leadership communication when Radical Candor is absent, identifying three common traps:

    🔸Obnoxious Aggression: Challenging directly without personal care, leading to feelings of attack and disregarded criticism.

    🔸Manipulative Insincerity: Offering insincere praise or talking negatively behind someone's back, which creates toxic workplaces.

    🔸Ruinous Empathy: Protecting short-term feelings by avoiding direct feedback, often leading to regrettable mistakes and unaddressed poor performance.

    Dr. Smith shares a personal anecdote demonstrating the immediate and positive impact of Radical Candor, highlighting its real-time, direct, and empathetic nature. They discuss how setting clear expectations for communication within a team fosters a culture where feedback is received more effectively.

    The episode also touches upon the scientific backing for Radical Candor's components, such as transparency fostering psychological safety and collaboration , and empathy leading to higher job satisfaction, innovation, and performance. Dr. Smith emphasizes that Radical Candor isn't just for criticism; it's equally vital for delivering genuine, in-the-moment praise.

    Ultimately, the discussion underscores that practicing Radical Candor builds trust, deepens connections, and increases efficiency, contributing not only to better leadership but to a better life overall. Tom and Dr. Smith even introduce the complementary concept of "Radical Curiosity" as a way for leaders to gain deeper understanding before offering feedback.

    To learn more about the science of leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

    Note: Dr. Smith inadvertently referred to Kim Scott, the author of Radical Candor, as "Kristen Scott" several times during the podcast. She recognized her mistake later and is sorry for that.

    References

    Bennis, W., Goleman, D. & O’Toole, J. (2008). Transparency: How Leaders Create a Culture of Candor. Jossey-Bass.

    Edmondson, A. (1999). Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams. Administrative Science Quarterly, 44(2), 350–383. https://doi.org/10.2307/2666999

    Edmondson, A. C. (2018). The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth. John Wiley & Sons.

    Kock, N., Mayfield, M., Mayfield, J., Sexton, S. & Garza, L. M. D. L. (2019). Empathetic Leadership: How Leader Emotional Support and Understanding Influences Follower Performance. Journal of Leadership & Organizational Studies, 26(2), 217–236. https://doi.org/10.1177/1548051818806290

    Scott, K. (2015). Radical Candor: How to Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity. St. Martin’s Press.

    Vich, M. & Kim, M. Y. (2016). Construction and Application of Radical Candor: Efficiency of Criticism at Work. Central European Business Review, 5(4), 11–22.

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    31 mins
  • Tools for Mastering Strategic Communication with Matt Abrahams | Ep. 44 | The Science of Leadership
    Jun 10 2025

    In this episode of The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins welcomes Matt Abrahams, a strategic communication lecturer at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, author, and host of the Think Fast, Talk Smart podcast. They dive deep into the concept of strategic communication, which Matt defines as the application of clear goals and purpose to our communication, whether handling a crisis or propagating a message throughout an organization.

    Key ideas discussed include:

    • Communication as Operationalized Leadership: Matt shares that communication is "operationalized leadership," meaning leaders lead through how they communicate.
    • The Biggest Mistake in Strategic Communication: A critical mistake leaders often make is not involving communication early enough in their processes, viewing it as an afterthought rather than an integral part of problem-solving or opportunity seizing.
    • Audience-Centric Communication: Effective communication is not about what you say, but "what they hear". It's crucial to understand your audience's position, orientation, and values, then tailor your message to ensure they receive the intended meaning.
    • Improving Communication Skills: Matt provides practical tips for enhancing strategic communication, emphasizing three essential methods for improvement: repetition, reflection, and feedback.
    • The "Must-Have" of Strategic Communication: Beyond understanding your audience, the second most important aspect is having a clear, goal-directed message. A clear goal has three parts:
      • What you want the audience to know (information).
      • How you want them to feel (emotion).
      • What you want them to do (action).
    • The Value of Communication Training: Investing in formal communication training is vital for leadership success, a practice exemplified by top military leaders.

    To learn more about Matt Abrahams' work, visit his website at https://www.fastersmarter.io/ and check out his podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn.

    If you want to learn more about The Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

    References

    Abrahams, M. (2016). Speaking Up Without Freaking Out: 50 Techniques for Confident and Compelling Presenting, 3rd ed. Kendall Hunt Publishing.

    Abrahams, M. (2023). Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot. Simon Element.

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    25 mins
  • The Leadership Code: Unlocking Secrets for Today's Leaders | Ep. 43 | The Science of Leadership
    Jun 3 2025

    Join Tom Collins on this episode of @TheScienceofLeadership as he welcomes Dr. David Ulrich, a leading authority on leadership and human resource development, and co-founder of the RBL Group.

    Dr. Ulrich, author of over 30 books, including The Leadership Code, shares insights into the essential framework for leadership effectiveness, outlining its five key rules: strategy, execution, managing talent, building the future, and personal proficiency.

    Discover how these timeless principles, from knowing where you're going and making progress to nurturing your people and investing in the next generation, form the "DNA code" of leadership. Dr. Ulrich and Tom delve into the importance of a leader's aspiration in an uncertain world, and how fostering an environment where individuals feel better about themselves after an interaction is a crucial test of leadership.

    They explore the concept of "leadership brand," emphasizing the critical link between internal leadership actions and external customer promises, highlighting that true value creation extends beyond just shareholder returns to encompass all stakeholders.

    This episode offers valuable takeaways for anyone seeking to cultivate not just effective leadership, but a truly meaningful life.

    Key References:

    Carnegie, D. (1948). How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. Simon & Schuster.

    Carnegie, D. (1937). How to Win Friends and Influence People. Simon & Schuster.

    Ulrich, D., & Smallwood, N. (2007). Leadership Brand: Developing Customer-Focused Leaders to Drive Performance and Build Lasting Value. Harvard Business Review Press.

    Ulrich, D., Smallwood, N., & Sweetman, K. (2008). The Leadership Code: Five Rules to Lead By. Harvard Business Press.

    Ulrich, D., & Ulrich, W. (2010). The Why of Work. McGraw Hill.

    To dive deeper into the science behind exceptional leadership and gain more valuable insights, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/ today!

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    40 mins