Amer shares an anecdote about reviewing a setter's call recordings and discovering instances where the call duration was inflated, potentially to boost performance metrics. The group discusses the ethics and implications of such behavior, as well as strategies for addressing it.

John shares his perspective on the nuances of effort, yield, and behavioral patterns in the workplace. He draws parallels to examples from sports and business, emphasizing the importance of understanding individual motivations and the structures that enable or discourage certain behaviors.

Austin discusses his approach to implementing "performance improvement plans" (PIPs) within his company, aiming to shift the focus from punitive measures to proactive development. The group explores the challenges and considerations around setting clear expectations, providing support, and aligning individual and organizational goals.

Austin shares his perspective on maintaining a strong work ethic while also prioritizing his upcoming role as a father. The group discusses the importance of leading by example, setting boundaries, and adapting to the unpredictability that comes with raising a child.

Amer reflects on his own approach to productivity, expressing a sense of uncertainty around setting specific goals and deadlines. The group explores strategies for aligning personal values, business objectives, and sustainable work habits.

John, Austin, and Amer share details about their morning routines and daily schedules. John wakes up at 5am, meditates, reads, and has a set breakfast before heading to the office. Austin has a more variable schedule depending on whether he's going to the gym in the morning, but generally wakes up around 5:40am, works out, showers, and then starts his workday around 9am. Amer wakes up around 8:40am, showers, and jumps straight into meetings with his sales team.

The group discusses the challenge of balancing work and personal life. Austin shares that he sometimes struggles to stop working in the evenings, with his wife Miranda having to intervene. Amer explains that he tries to avoid working on weekends, using that time for personal activities and relaxation instead. John notes that if he didn't have Trisha, he would likely work around the clock.

Amer opens up about his desire to be well-known and to spread ideas that he finds valuable. He sees this as a "biological instinct" to share good ideas, and feels he has natural talents as a speaker and presenter that he wants to leverage. The group explores whether this desire for recognition is driven by ego or a deeper purpose.

The group questions Amer's approach to dating and finding a long-term partner. They note that he seems less open about his dating life compared to other areas, and express concern that he may not be as serious or intentional about it as they would expect given his success in business. Amer explains his reasoning for being more private about this area of his life.

Meeting Purpose

Impromptu discussion to explore and provide feedback on Amer Abu Shakra's business operations and management approach at contracting.com.

• Amer's business has a structured sales process with distinct roles (setter, hybrid, closer) and a customer success management (CSM) team

• The company relies heavily on systems and metrics for performance tracking and accountability

• There may be opportunities to increase individual autonomy and self-reflection among team members

• Amer's analytical approach to discussing his business revealed potential insights about his management style

• Sales team: 1 setter, 2 hybrids, 1 closer

• 5 CSMs (including a manager) handle customer onboarding, coaching, and retention

• CMO role focuses on driving revenue and managing marketing initiatives

• 4-person administrative team handles various projects and operations

• Leads generated primarily through Facebook ads (2,200/month)

• Setter team aims for 19-hour callback time

• Double/triple booking system to mitigate 50% show rate

• Extensive use of CRM, dialers, and reporting tools for performance tracking

• End-of-day reports and weekly performance reviews are standard practice

• Heavy emphasis on systems, metrics, and structured accountability

• Potential for over-reliance on external accountability vs. self-motivated review

• Discussion around balancing structured systems with individual autonomy and creativity

• Amer's analytical approach to business discussions may impact team dynamics

• Encouraging more self-motivated performance review among team members

• Balancing structured systems with individual autonomy and creativity

• Exploring ways to make the work environment feel less "corporate" and more entrepreneurial

• Considering how Amer's management style and communication approach impacts the team

John and the group discuss his top priorities in life, which he identifies as his relationship with his wife Trisha, his business ProWorks, and his health. They also briefly touch on the role of church in his life.

John shares his weekly calendar and schedule, explaining how he intentionally plans out his week on Sundays, with recurring tasks and events above a "black line" and more flexible items below. The group examines how John's schedule is structured around his sales, investing, and personal commitments.

John acknowledges that the biggest challenge he faces is maintaining clear boundaries between his investing time and his involvement in the ProWorks business. He struggles with the tendency to get pulled into ProWorks tasks and issues, which can distract from his investing focus.

The group explores Brady's strengths and weaknesses in potentially taking on a sales manager role. They identify gaps in Brady's empathy, ego management, and patience that would need to be addressed for him to be successful in that position. John expresses a willingness to coach Brady but also acknowledges the risk of failure if Brady cannot make the necessary improvements.

John shares insights into his own personal growth journey, explaining how he has transformed from being highly unempathetic and egotistical to becoming more self-aware and focused on coaching his team. He sees parallels between his own past struggles and Brady's current challenges, giving him hope that Brady can make a similar transformation.

The group concludes by acknowledging the deep respect and commitment in the relationship between John and Brady, and the potential for Brady to grow into a leadership role if he continues to put in the necessary work. They agree that John will continue coaching Brady, with a focus on developing the key skills and mindset shifts required for the sales manager position.

Austin expresses a preference for the podcast to be shorter, around 1.5 hours, as he finds himself disengaging in the latter half. He explains that the first 1-1.5 hours are typically the most engaging and valuable for him, while the final 30-45 minutes can feel drawn out. John and Amer acknowledge Austin's perspective and are open to exploring ways to structure the podcast to better meet his needs.

The group discusses how their differing schedules and time commitments impact their preferences for the podcast length. John shares that the podcast ends at 9am for him, leaving him with open time before his next obligation, while Austin has a busier Sunday schedule that the podcast can disrupt. They explore potential compromises, such as starting the podcast at 10:30am instead of 9:30am to give John more time to wake up.

The group acknowledges a shared desire for more intentionality and structure in the podcast, including the ability to come prepared with specific topics or questions they want to discuss. They agree that the current approach of each person hoping to cover their own agenda can lead to missed opportunities and disengagement. The group proposes implementing a system where they share their discussion topics and priorities ahead of time.

The group agrees that they strongly dislike small talk during the podcast, preferring to dive directly into substantive discussions. They agree to avoid open-ended questions that tend to lead to unproductive small talk, and instead focus on asking direct questions that drive the conversation forward.

The group discusses the value of committing to specific actions or changes during the podcast, and then holding each other accountable for following through on those commitments in the following weeks. They propose a system where each person shares their current challenges or goals, and the group provides feedback and support.

The group summarizes the key agreements reached, including: 1) Dedicating the next 3 episodes to deep dives into each person's current situation and challenges, 2) Implementing a system for sharing discussion topics and priorities ahead of time, and 3) Avoiding small talk in favor of more intentional, substantive conversations. They agree to iterate on this structure as needed to ensure the podcast remains valuable and engaging for all.

Amer, Austin, and John discussed booking an Airbnb for their upcoming Patreon retreat in Chilliwack, BC. They reviewed several options and ultimately chose one with a life-size Monopoly board, double basketball court, and cold plunge, as these amenities were very appealing to the group.

John shared insights from a Wall Street Journal article on sports betting, noting that 91% of bettors are overly optimistic about their future winnings, despite being accurate in reporting their past losses. He also discussed the popularity of parlay bets and player prop bets, which are the most profitable for gambling companies.

The group discussed the parallels between investing, sports betting, and the monetization tactics used in video games, such as loot boxes and microtransactions. They noted how these industries all leverage human psychology and the desire to predict the future, often leading to losses for the average participant.

The group analyzed how different industries and trades are impacted by economic conditions, with discretionary and capital-intensive sectors like pools and roofing being more sensitive than essential services like plumbing. They discussed how this affects their own business and the need to adapt strategies accordingly.

Amer and John discussed their approaches to managing and coaching their teams, with John outlining his structured process of reviewing data, isolating issues, and providing targeted training and feedback. They also explored the distinction between managing and coaching, and the importance of developing these skills as business owners.

John shared his reflections on the similarities between Warren Buffett's approach as a successful investor and operator, and his own aspirations to develop complementary skills in capital allocation and coaching management teams. They discussed the importance of initial conditions and the potential for a holding company structure to leverage these abilities.

Here is a link to Chris Thomson's podast - The Leaders of Tomorrow

A casual exploratory conversation with Chris Thomson, Head Coach of Student Works, covering leadership, personal development, and business philosophy.

• Chris emphasizes integrity, continuous learning, and personal growth as key to long-term success in business and life

• Student Works' success attributed to focused strategy, strong culture, and developing leaders through hands-on experience

• Chris advocates for finding one's unique strengths and contributions rather than trying to excel at everything

• Meditation, journaling, and regular personal development practices are crucial for maintaining clarity and effectiveness as a leader

• Focuses on developing a strong culture of integrity and continuous improvement

• Emphasizes being an exemplar and living the values you espouse

• Believes in giving people opportunities to grow, even if they initially struggle

• Advocates for clear standards and removing those who don't align with company values

• Stresses the importance of being a "student of the game" and continuously learning

• Grew from $10 million to $35 million annual revenue in past 7 years

• Implemented minimum performance standards (e.g. $40k booked by May 1st) to improve quality

• Focused strategy on core business, avoiding distractions that previously limited growth

• Improved systems, marketing, and recruitment processes based on learnings from competitors

• Emphasizes developing leaders through hands-on experience running their own operations

• Daily meditation practice focusing on body scan, emotional awareness, and thought observation

• Regular journaling to gain clarity on thoughts and feelings

• Participates in mastermind groups and personal development programs (e.g. Landmark, Hoffman Process)

• Reads 30-40 books per year to continually expose himself to new ideas

• Recently completed a 300-hour coaching course to further develop skills

• Believes financial success should be a byproduct of creating value, not the primary goal

• Advocates for building wealth slowly and living below means in early career

• Warns against tying self-worth to net worth or material possessions

• Emphasizes the importance of having a clear life philosophy and living it consistently

• Recommends focusing on experiences over material goods once financial stability is achieved

• Develop a clear vision for your life and work towards it consistently

• Focus on building valuable skills rather than just following passion

• Be cautious about over-extending financially in early stages of business

• Continuously invest in personal growth and development

• Find ways to contribute value to others rather than focusing solely on personal gain

• Interested individuals can email Chris at cthompson@studentworks.com to learn more about Student Works

• Those curious about the program should consider working for a current Student Works operator to gain experience

• Listen to the Leaders of Tomorrow podcast for more insights from Chris and successful alumni

• Read "So Good They Can't Ignore You" by Cal Newport for insights on skill development vs. passion