In this part one of two conversation, Renee Swanson and Jerry Wise delve into the complexities of narcissism and the concept of self-differentiation. Jerry shares his extensive experience in family systems therapy and explains how self-differentiation allows individuals to grow into their true selves without absorbing the toxicity of others. They discuss the loss of self often experienced by those raised in narcissistic families, the internal messages that keep individuals stuck, and the distinctions between healthy and unhealthy guilt and shame. The conversation emphasizes the importance of personal growth and healing in overcoming the effects of narcissism.

Takeaways

• Self-differentiation is crucial for personal growth.
• Narcissistic families often hinder the development of a true self.
• Healing involves getting rid of family programming. Shame and guilt can be healthy or unhealthy.
• It's important to separate true feelings from system feelings.
• You can maintain relationships with narcissistic individuals by understanding your own identity.
• Self-love is essential for healing.
• Many feelings of unworthiness stem from family dysfunction.
• Understanding the difference between guilt types is vital for emotional health.
• You are not responsible for the programming you received from your family.

What happens when the fairy tale was never a fairy tale to begin with?

In this powerful episode, Renee Swanson is joined by Andrea, the candid and courageous voice behind the hit podcast How Not to Suck at Divorce. Andrea doesn’t just share her story—she lays it all out. The red flags she ignored. The justifications she clung to. The slow unraveling of her identity. The physical collapse that finally forced her to confront the truth.

Together, Renee and Andrea dive deep into:

• The invisible trauma of covert emotional abuse

• How your childhood shapes the dysfunction you tolerate

• The cost of trying to “make it work” while losing yourself

• Why the hardest part isn’t leaving—it’s everything that comes after

• The importance of creating a plan... and what happens when it all falls apart

Andrea’s brutal honesty, dark humor, and heartfelt wisdom remind us that healing starts with bravery—and that no matter how broken you feel, there is a way through.

💬 “Your life will never get better unless you get brave.” — Andrea

This episode is a must-listen for anyone feeling stuck, scared, or unsure about whether change is even possible. You’re not alone. And your future can look nothing like your past.

👉 Listen now—and get ready to feel seen.
👉 Then hop over to How Not to Suck at Divorce for even more practical tools and fierce support.

In this episode, we’re diving into the conversations I wish I could have had with the covert narcissist in my life. The words I rehearsed but never said. The truths I buried for the sake of “keeping the peace.” The sarcasm I bit back. The boundaries I swallowed. All of it. Because sometimes, the only way to make sense of the madness that is covert narcissistic abuse is to talk it out—even if it’s only in your own head.

We’re pulling back the curtain on:

• The emotional minefield of everyday life with a covert narcissist
• The way gaslighting turns simple moments into emotional warfare
• The mental gymnastics of the “circular conversation”
• The rage that gets disguised as “just a rough day”
• The slow erosion of your voice when you’re always managing their emotions

This isn’t just about venting. It’s about reclaiming the space to name what happened, to validate the version of reality you know you experienced, and to remind you that you’re not crazy. You’re not too sensitive. You’re not imagining it. You’re waking up.

So grab your tea, your journal, or just a quiet moment in your car, and let’s process together. Because your voice matters. Even if it’s shaking. Even if it’s only just starting to come back.

✨ Leave this episode knowing:
You don’t have to keep tapdancing around someone else’s dysfunction to be worthy of love, safety, or peace.
You get to stop shrinking.
You get to stop rehearsing.
You get to heal.

—

🔗 Want support on your healing journey?
Your story matters, and you deserve to be heard without judgment. If you’re ready to take the next step toward healing, check out my coaching services at www.covertnarcissism.com. And don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering episodes like this one.

#covertnarcissism #gaslighting #emotionalabuse #covertnarcissist #healingjourney #narcissisticabuserecovery #reclaimyourvoice #podcastforsurvivors

At the end of every episode, I say, “I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing.” But today, I want to pause and really talk about what that journey actually looks like—because healing from covert narcissistic abuse isn’t what most people think.

When I first left, I believed healing meant I’d wake up one day and magically stop hurting. I thought it meant I’d feel strong and peaceful all the time. Instead, I felt confused, angry, exhausted… and sometimes even guilty for walking away.

What I didn’t know then—but deeply understand now—is that healing isn’t a return to who you were before. That version of you doesn’t exist anymore. And that’s not a tragedy—it’s a transformation. Healing is not going back—it’s becoming.

In this episode, I take you inside the real healing process: the grief, the guilt, the spiral staircase of progress. I unpack what we’re actually healing from—the chronic invalidation, emotional starvation, and deep erosion of self-worth that doesn’t leave bruises but leaves a lasting impact.

You'll hear examples that hit home, like standing in the grocery store frozen by the realization that you don’t have to buy his favorite cereal anymore. Or crying in the bathroom because someone raised their voice, and it took you back. You’ll also hear what healing becomes: the moment you say no without explaining, the first night you sleep peacefully, the sound of your own laugh returning after years of silence.

We’ll talk about:

• Why healing is not linear—and why that’s okay
• What it means to be on the healing path, even when it doesn’t feel like it
• How to recognize those quiet signs that you are making progress
• Why “being healed” isn’t a final destination—it’s a way of being
• And why grieving who you had to be to survive is part of the process too

🔔 Listen now and remember: Healing is happening inside of you, even on the days it feels invisible.

As always, I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing—because it’s real, it’s sacred, and so are you.

In this raw and emotional episode, we’re diving deep into one of the most devastating dynamics in families with a covert narcissist: when the parent doing all the emotional labor is unseen, while the other parent gets all the praise.

We unpack the covert narcissist’s relentless need for supply and scapegoats—and how this manipulative cycle plays out not just with their partner, but with their children. You’ll hear the heartbreaking truth of what it feels like to be the steady, loving, rule-setting parent while your kids are pulled toward the fun, charming, and performative parent who barely shows up... until the cameras are on.

This episode is for the parents who make the lunches, wipe the tears, stay up worrying, enforce the rules, and still get painted as the “problem.” It’s for the ones who feel erased, blamed, and heartbroken.

You’re not alone—and you’re not invisible.

Tune in for validation, practical healing tools, and the reminder that your love leaves a lasting mark, even if your children can’t see it right now. The truth will rise.

To the invisible parent: You are the anchor. You are the lighthouse. And one day, they will know.

I often get asked:
•Why did this happen to me?
•How did I get here?
•How do I prevent it from ever happening again?
•How do I heal from this?
These are excellent questions and they are very related to each other. Why did this happen to me has a whole lot to do with how do I prevent it from ever happening again. How did I get here is tied closely with how do I heal from this.
You need to know about Radical Personal Responsibility - Your special weapon that is unreachable for narcissistic individuals.
Taking control of your own internal world is absolutely one of your greatest tools and something that covert narcissists can never do!! I want to explain this tool to you and then teach you how to use it. The first step is to become aware of your autopilot!

I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse.
•Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?
•Are you searching for people who get it?
•Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?
•Are you running in circles in your mind?
•Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?
•Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world?
I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com
Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse
http://www.covertnarcissism.com
https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson
https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson
https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Not all bruises are visible—and some of the deepest ones live in the hearts of our children.

In this powerful episode, we talk about the unseen wounds of emotional abuse, especially when you're parenting alongside a covert narcissist. What happens when the world only believes abuse if they can see it? What happens to the children growing up in that invisible war zone?

If you’ve ever felt dismissed because your scars weren’t physical, or if you’re watching your children carry emotional weight no child should bear, this episode will speak to your soul. You’ll hear validation, truth, and hope for healing—for you and for your kids.

This one’s for the parent who keeps showing up, even when no one sees how hard it is. You are not alone. And your love is rewriting their story.

🎙️ Tune in now—and please, share this with someone who needs to know: their story matters too.

What a privilege it is to introduce to you Debbie Mirza! She is best-selling author of the book "The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist," one of the first books I ever read that opened my eyes to the nightmare that I was living. This book is an amazing resource for gaining awareness and understanding of covert narcissism.
Her second book "Worthy of Love' presents a gentle and restorative path to healing after narcissistic abuse. Debbie is a beautiful testimony that healing is possible and thriving is obtainable.
Debbie has such a gentle and tender heart for survivors of narcissistic abuse. Her gentle spirit and empowering strength are so encouraging and inspiring. She shows us all that it is possible to stand up for and protect yourself and yet maintain that kind and compassionate self that we all desire to be.
To learn more about Debbie's work, visit www.debbiemirza.com
June 1 is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. In honor of that day, for the entire month of June, I am offering all individual sessions with at a discounted rate of $99 per hour. We can meet once or we can meet as many times as you want. If you would like to take advantage of this offer, shoot me an email at renee@cnglifecoaching.com
I also want to take a quick moment and remind you that my next round of group sessions is beginning on May 31. I only have a few spots left in these groups. You can choose between Tuesday mornings or Saturday mornings. Each group runs for 6 weeks. We meet for 2 hours on Zoom each week. You receive handouts and worksheets each week. Each group consists of 10 group members, who just like you are struggling through a relationship with a covert narcissist. It is incredibly empowering to work in a group setting where you receive so much validation for the pain, confusion and doubt that you are experiencing. If you want one of these few spots remaining, please do not hesitate to contact me. These groups will fill up.